Reply: 31 December, 2005 - The Royal Bros. Circus for the seasons 1948 & 1949 never existed. This show was a hoax. Although the person(s) put out route cards and even printed a 1948 route book, the show never existed or was ever on the road. Ted Bowman Route Collection

Reply: 29 December, 2005 - Judy, Several years ago I went through old newspapers in Newport, RI looking for circus ads (I was born in that city). For the season of 1878 I found: "Van Amburgh & Co.'s New Great Golden Menagerie Circus & Coliseum, Oct. 15, Newport, RI, lot: corner of Spring & Perry. I might add that this was very unusual for a show to play Newport that late in the season. That show had also played there in 1864, then again in 1868. Those prior dates were in the month of May. Do you want a copy of the 1878 newspaper ad? Jim Cole

Reply: 29 December, 2005 - Thanks to Jim Cole for the information and a copy of the 1878 newspaper ad. Judy Griffin

Reply: 24 Nov 2008 - I am Costa daughter from his marriage to Orlanda Anastasini, why are you trying to contact my father? Anita Brandt

Reply: 05 January, 2006 - Pollock Brothers Shrine Circus (Western Division) 1949 had a one finger balancer, similar to Unus, who I "think" was called the Great Barton. He performed with his wife as his assistant. Both were blonde haired Scandinavians. This is going back 56 years and I was only 16 at the time and new to the circus so this info is ??? Maybe someone could add to or correct this. RAG Troy, MI

Reply: 05 January, 2006 - RAG, you are correct. I did a look-up in newspaperarchives.com due to the queries about one finger balancers, and found the Great Barton and his wife. Oakland (CA) Tribune, May 5, 1949, ". . . great show Polack Brothers have put together for presentation under Shrine auspices this year. . . . the Great Barton and his wife, Eva Barton, a native Svenska, is a man who balances himself on a single finger, . . . " Other articles were found listing the Great Barton, one finger balancer, with various circuses for the 1950s, but no information on who he was. - J. Griffin

Reply: 08 January, 2006 - We worked with The Bartons many times in the 50s. They had a great act and appeared on the Ed Sullivan show a few times. As far as I know, Mrs Barton is still alive and is married to a Shriner. fatima

Reply: 16 January, 2006 - The Great Barton was working in England in 1959 at the Blackpool Tower Circus. Good programme pics. White or light double breasted suit and white bow tie, top hat and gloves which look rather large - did they figure in the act? I can't recall. Worked on a stand like a giant bar stool and judging by the assistant alongside it must have been ten or eleven feet high. On the 'seat pad' was balanced a seven rung ladder - say another six or seven feet. Barton is doing a handstand on top of the ladder with hoops slung over the top corner of the ladder. Looks like a picture taken when working on a stage with curtain drop behind. Stage right there's an X frame sling stand holding props - there's a top hat and cane across the sling. In another shot there is the single finger stand on a ball and a sketch also illustrates hand blocks on the bar stool seat.
      In the same programme is the Great Pusztai Troupe someone was asking about some time back. It was a memorable show with the Mexican trapezists the Four Palacios, Mancy Illeneb with tigers, Tibor Alexander's dogs, Knie's elephants and the Schickler sisters - Edith and Ingrid - with no less than four horse acts. They were terrific. Ingrid presented Knie's mixed ponies at liberty - palomino, Welsh and Shetland - and Edith did a ballerina with Brutus, a dapple grey, and also the spotted horses from Knie billed as Tiger horses and finally both sisters together with a high school act on greys. They worked the tower a number of times and were so good. Where are they now? Tony James, England, tonyjames@tesco.net

Reply: 29 December, 2005 - At least 4 Okabe circusposters on circusmuseum.nl just type OKABE or JAPANESE in the white search area (ZOEK) Circusmuseum.nl. Herman Voogd, hvoogd@teylersmuseum.nl

Reply: 30 December, 2005 - Thank you very much Herman! - Bill K

Reply: 27 December, 2005 - I have just completed a scan of this board's entire message database & can find nothing for Ringling lion trainer or tamer, period. I did find many reference to lion trainers but again nothing for the time period (1920's) that you are interested in. Tomorrow as time allows I will scan the White Tops database & see what I can locate there. Fret knot tho as there are many fine authorities w/n this group that just may say that I no not of what I speak of. Danny

Reply: 27 December, 2005 - Searched White Tops database and still unable to find any info for your timeline. But keep checking back as I will check out some other sources. Danny

Reply: 28 December, 2005 - Dear Mr. Hernandez, From what I know of Ringling history in the late 1920's, the show may not have had a big-cat act during that period. Clyde Beatty worked on the Ringling show in the early '30s, but only on the opening building dates, and as far as I know, never lived in Florida. Perhaps someone with a full set of Ringling progams can respond with a more definative answer. Also, at that period, the show title was "Ringling Bros. Barnum & Bailey" as it still is today. The proper term for one who presented big cats is "trainer" rather than "tamer". The later must have come out of Hollywood. Today, the proper term seems to be "Animal Behavior Specialist". If you are in Sarasota, you may check with the archives dept. at the Ringling Museum, perhaps they can help you. Jim Cole

Reply: 29 December, 2005 - Hi J. A., Because the house was built in 1926, it may not mean the Lion Trainer lived there in that early time frame. How about checking out the address at the local courthouse for tax records, etc. It may give you a list of previous owners and a name may ring a bell to someone here on "Circus Message Board". I grew up in one of the 1926 built homes two doors from Ringling Home in Saphire Shores. I believe many of the original homes in that area had something to do with Ringling.

Reply: 31 December, 2005 - I sold two houses in Sarasota in 2002 that were next to each other on 10th st. in Gillespie Park. Both houses were built in 1926. One of the houses I had purchased from the widow of the original owner. A Mr. Patrick Welch. Mr. Welch was ,according to his widow, for many years the personal Chauffeur for John Ringling. Mrs. Welch " Dorothy" who was in her 80s at that time went into a nursing home. I kept in touch with her with birthday cards and Christmas cards etc. until her death a couple of years later. The house has since been moved but, is still in existence. Perhaps the "Lion Tamer" was actually Mr. Welch, the Chauffeur? Erny Karoly

Reply: 08 Oct 2007 - I am a historic preservation and consultant in Sarasota and might be able to help. Call me 941-536-4476. I know where the circus doctor lived and have some ideas to help you out. Mikki Hartig. After I wrote you the first email, I found something. Mabel Stark, married several times might be your lion tamer. She married circus accountant Albert Ewing in 1924. She supposedly wrote an autobiography "Hold That Tiger" in 1938 as well. Here is a link. If it doesn't work. do a internet search. Lots of info about her life. In fact, they say they are going to do a moie on her life starring Kate Winslet. http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,928710,00.html. Mikki Hartig

Reply: 31 December, 2005 - BIGGER PLYERS!!!. No, just kidding. Actually I have never heard of "pulling a tusk'. I have known of elephants tusks being sawed shorter but, never of being pulled. I would imagine if the gum was infected that perhaps it would have to be surgically removed. An elephants tusk is deeply imbedded in its jaw. It would be very difficult to remove it in any way. Erny Karoly P.S., why would one want to remove an elephants tusk, at least a live one's?

Al, Algis, Alva, Amy, Andrea, Ani, Anne, Armen, Barbara, Ben, Bethany, Bill, Billcar, Billy, Bob, Bruce, Bunni, Carl, Charles, Cherie, Chris, Cindy, Clay, Craig, Danny, Darren, David Lewis, Dee, Delia, Di, Dion, Dorothy, Doug, Duncan, Dwight, Eliana, Erny, Ester, Fatima, Fellner, Francis, Frank, Fred, Gavin, Glen, Glenn, GouldGrant, Grizzly, Heidi, Ian, Ira Hal, Irakli, J, James, Janette, JArrett, Jay, Jean, Jeanna, Jennifer, Jerry, Jim, Joanie, Joe, Joel, John, Johna, Jon, Joyce, Judy, Julia, Julie, K.C., Kathy, Kaye, Kelly, Ken, Kenton, Keri, Kevin, Lane, Larry, Leah, Lee, Leslie, Linda, Lindsay, Lisa, Maggie, Marcus, Mark, Mary, Marylin, Michele, Mike, Myrna, Natasha, Ned, Old Billcar, Ole, Pamela, PAt, Patty, Paul, Paula, Peggy, Pete, Peter, Ralph, Randy, Ray, Rebecca, Rhonda, Richard, Rick, Robert, Ron, Ronald, Rose, Rufus, Sandra, Sara, Scott, Simos, Slout, Stephanie, Steve, Stuart, Susan, Sydney, Ted, Teresa, Terry, Thomas, Tim, Tom, Unise, Wayne, Wm., Yolanda, & Yvonne.

Looking forward to many more hours and days of further reading/research. Thank you 1 and all. Danny, D952@mohaveaz.com. Respond to this message

Reply: 24 December, 2005 - See query 1021. See also Gil Robinson's book, "Old Wagon Show Days," and Richard E. Conover's "Give 'Em a John Robinson." Fred Dahlinger

Reply: 24 December, 2005 - I was curious about a Blondin Donkey and check NewspaperArchive.com. Lots of mentions of "Europe's greatest sensation," but for Blondin, the horse, no donkey. J. Griffin

Reply: 27 December, 2005 - In the latest issue of the Circus Model Builders "Little Circus Wagon" is an article featuring John Robinson Circus Wagons built by Ed Seiz of Rutherford, New Jersey. Ed is a member of the Sparks Ring and the John Pugh Ring of Central New Jersey. Ed has done extensive research on the John Robinson Circus and has built ALL of the John Robinson Circus wagons in HO Scale. Bob Judge, Neptune, NJ, Secretary, John Pugh Ring #96, CMB.

Reply: 23 December, 2005 - Irakli: Merry Christmas, and welcome to the Circus Historical Society website. Glad you found it. Richard Georgian

Reply: 29 December, 2005 - Thank you for the link to your website on the Georgian riders who worked with the "Bill Show." My brother lives in Tblisi, so I've shared the web address with him. I'm curious, is circus still produced in Georgia and are riding acts still a part of those shows? Ben Trumble

Reply: 03 Mar 2009 - Oh the great William Elmourne, tight rope walker! What is the time line for this gentleman? Was he ever in Cape breton Nova scotia, say around the year 1875? It looks like the amazing Elmourne was in Cape Breton in early times, with the circus? He could be a relative of my husbands', was he of gypsy stock? There was a William Elmourne said to have been in the Margaree area in Cape breton, he has relatives in Montreal. A wonderful find if true! Sincerely, Winnie MacDonald.

Reply: 04 Mar 2009 - Are we getting anywhere in locating our relative the great William Elmourne tightrope walker? Does anyone know anything? There must have been a poster, a circus poster somewhere along the way. He could have been born in cape breton, any leads on that? He was said to have married a Tompkins girl from Margaree Cape breton and had three three children between 1905 and 1908, he doesn't seem to be in the picture vey much, prehaps he was away with the circus. Also there are Elmourns in Newfoundland. I know that many Newfoundland people migrated to Margaree, Cape breton, usuallythe Irish, and there were many Irish people who migrated to Newfoundland in early times due to hard times in Cape breton. The 1911 will tell something. Sincerely winnie macdonald

Reply: 05 Mar 2009 - Again I respond. Still searching for the amazing Elmourne. Please respond and give me some pertinent info on this man. He is supposed to be a relative. I have never heard of the name elmourne. Can you tell me what nationality this name hails from? Sincerely winnie macdonald

Reply: 08 Mar 2009 - Here I am again. Who is the person who knew the amazing Elmourne and had a few drinks with him at one time. Does anyone know more about this tightrope walker. Please reply. Sincerely winnie macdonald

Reply: 25 Apr 2009 - Hi, I have the geneology of the Tompkins of Margaree and attach the information about his wife, and where and when he married in Cape Breton. My source has him born in England. Child of THOMAS TOMPKINS and ANN DENNISON is:
i. EMMA TOMPKINS, b. 12 Apr 1875, Margaree Forks, Inverness County, Nova Scotia; m. WILLIAM ELMOURNE, 10 Jul 1904, Margaree, Inverness County, Nova Scotia; b. Abt. 1876, London, England.
Notes for EMMA TOMPKINS: Godparents: David Tompkins, Julie Coady. Baptism: 01 May 1875, St. Michael's Parish, Margaree, Inverness County, Nova Scotia.
More About WILLIAM ELMOURNE: Occupation: 1904, Tightrope Walker. Residence: 1904, New York City, New York.
Marriage Notes for EMMA TOMPKINS and WILLIAM ELMOURNE: Witnesses: John Carroll, Arsene Cormier. Marriage: 10 Jul 1904, Margaree, Inverness County, Nova Scotia.
The sources are: NS Historical Vital Statistics, Marriage Registration, Inverness County, 10 July 1904: Emma Tompkins-William Elmourne.
I assume that you must have some relationship to the Tompkins or perhaps on the Elmourne side? The Cape Bretoners who went to Nf were Tompkins, Dolye and there are places on the island west coast that still have these places names. I have the geneology of the Tompkins from settlement on, done by a friend Trish LeBlanc, She has a huge data base of her family and the Tompkins is just a side branch to her work, if you are interested. She did the digging in the NS archives. But this may be all there is there on Elmourne. bruce parsons (my mother is Mary Tompkins).

Reply: 16 May 2009 - Thank you for all the information, I have found out a great deal from sources and personal research. Kelly

Reply: 30 May 2009 - The Amazing Elmourne married Emma Tompkins of Margaree and they had three children - Mary, Tommy and Lillian. Lillian (my grandmother) is 103 years old and is the reason I have been searching for years to find out how the Amazing Elmourne came to be in Margaree. We grew up on stories of the Amazing Elmourne and grandmother is still very curious about her father's early years. Gypsy stock? Sounds right! Would love to connect directly with you Winnie - please contact Mary Ann at elmourne@live.com

Reply: 06 June 2009 - I spoke recently with My Aunt Shirley, Tommy Elmournes Oldest Daughter. I told her I had visited with Lillian recently and she said that Lillains story is a bit confusing. Shirley said that, tommy didn't meet his father - the Great elmourne till he was 40 yrs old. He was going around Margaree selling Vaccum cleaners and had come across a house way off the road, when lady answered the door, he introduced himself and said she knew the name- Her sister had ran away with old elmourne back to New York, she had asked him if he had been in contact with His father she had had a letter with his address, She gave him the address and tommy wrote his father a letter. The great elmourne replyed and invited Tommy to visit. So he went to Brooklyn new york to meet him. that is all I know that he had a new life, new wife, and had been married previous to being Married to Emma tompkins. Kelly

Reply: 16 Dec 2009 - Hi, This is just too good a story to let disappear. I am a friend of Gerard Scanlan, who is the son of William and Mary Scanlon(note spelling difference) from the Isle Madame area of Cape Breton. Gerry's mother Mary was the first-born of Emma and William Elmourne. (Lillian and Tommy's sister). I live in Truro but some of my ancestry is in the Margaree. When Gerry started regaling me with tales of his "Jewish tightrope walking Grandfather" from Margaree, I took immediate notice. Gerry is an eclectic individual as you will ever have the pleasure of meeting, and there is usually SOME truth in whatever he is saying, you just have to work at uncovering the layers of lore to discover it. I first heard about his Grandfather a few years ago. I am spending more and more time in Margaree now and have asked around a bit about "the story" The guys at the "Liars Club"( 6:00 A.M.free coffee ) at Ralph MacPherson's Lucky Dollar in Margaree Valley shake their heads at "tight-rope walker" but all knew of, and had stories about, Tommy Elmourne. In talking to Gerry today, he told me that his mother (Mary) and his sister (Emma) went to New York to visit William Elmourne when Emma was quite young. I have a call into Emma and hopefully will be able to provide an account of that visit. Gerry remembers the Scanlon(Scanlan) family receiving barrels of clothes from NY (Gerry is the youngest of 11, 10 older sisters) which I'm sure would have come in handy. He also has a memory of a leather football helmet and 2 hickory shafted golf clubs which were in one of the barrels. Anyway, I will post more as I find it. Please keep me in the loop. You can email me at: davidscammell1@gmail.com

Reply: 19 Dec 2009 - Hi, in response to my Dec.16/09 post. Frst a couple of corrections. Mary was William and Emma's second child Lillian was first. And Gerry Scanlan is the 10th of 11 children. He has 9 older sisters and one younger, all still living.
    A few days ago I talked to Emma (Scanlan) she and her mother Mary went to Brooklyn in 1951 to visit The Great Elmourne. Emma was around 18 at the time and recalls her grandfather as being somewhat sickly, but very gregarious and demonstrative. Lots of hugs etc. She also remembers seeing pictures on his walls that seemed to be of entertainers, Caucasians as well as Blacks. Some of the female pictures were referred to as his neices. She and her mother were treated cordially but coolly by the lady of the house, who either travelled with or followed the Great Elmourne back to NY when he left Mary's mother around 1909.
    Today I talked to another sister,Millie(Scanlan). Mary apparently had the letters Elmourne wrote to his wife Emma between 1904/1909 when he would have been away working.These letters had wonderful penmanship and were either on letterhead or (more likely) Circus Posters that prominently featured The Great Elmourne in various poses of tightrope walking, juggling, etc. Millie thinks these letters have NOT survived but will make enquiries. Millie does have the one letter that Elmourne sent to her (early 50's) and will send me a copy. Apparently very good penmanship but a little shakey.
    Millie says the woman with Elmourne in NY was was Libby Shaw. I know some of the Shaws in Margaree and will follow up. Also the Scanlans say that their mother Mary sometimes mentioned that she thought her Father's birth l name might have been Rosenthal.
    One final Mystery. Millie says that she,her mother Mary,and her Aunt Lillian went to the Alexander Graham bell Museum around 1960 where an exhibit had a man by the name of "Pollock" (spelling?) in it. Lillian said it was her father and that he had worked with Bell in Baddeck in the early 1900's.
    So there you have it, long on clues and short on facts. There's GOT to be a surviving poster of The Great Elmourne, or some other artifacts. Look in your attics, old chests, maybe between the pages of old books. Thanks, Dave.

Reply: 20 Dec 2009 - Hi again. First, a couple of corrections to my post of Dec 16/09. Mary Scanlan was the 2nd child( not the 1st) of William and Emma Elmourne, and Gerry (Gerard) is the 10th child of William and Mary Scanlan. He has 9 older sisters and one younger, all still living.
    I have talked to 2 of Mary (Elmourne) Scanlan's daughters, Emma and Millie. Emma travelled with Mary to visit the Great Elmourne in 1951 to Brooklyn. Emma remembers a gregarious older man who was somewhat sickly but demonstrative in his affection for both Emma and Mary. She remembers framed pictures on the walls of what she thinks were more like entertainers than "family" pictures, although Elmourne referred to some of them as his nieces. Emma further recollects the lady of the house being somewhat standoffish to their presence. This is the lady from Margaree who followed? or went with Elmourne back to NY after he had left Mary. More on her in a minute.
    Today I talked to Emma's sister Millie. She remembers as a girl seeing letters William Elmourne had sent to his wife Mary which must have been written in the 1904/1909 range. Millie assumes these were sent while The Great Elmourne was away performing. Millie distinctly remembers the wonderful penmanship of his writing, which were written on "letterhead," possibly posters, showing images of The Great Elmourne in various Circus actions like tight rope walking and juggling. So it certainly seems that The Great Elmourne was a headliner in various acts. Millie also has a letter that The Great Elmourne sent her in the early 50's, a copy of which she will send me. She also had the name of the lady from Margaree who went to NY to be with William, Libby Shaw. I know some of the Shaws' from Margaree and will follow up from that angle.
    The Scanlan's believe that Elmourne's original name MIGHT have been Rosenthal, anybody know anything about that??
    Finally Millie said that she, her mother and her Aunt Lillian visited the Alexander Graham Bell Museum in Baddeck shortly after it opened, and Lillian saw an exhibit with the name "Pollock" (spelling?) on it. Lillian said that "Pollock" was really Elmourne under an assumed name and that he ( Pollock/Elmourne) had worked for a while with Bell at Baddeck. The more you know, the deeper the Mystery. Wouldn't it be wonderful If a poster of The Great Elmourne has survived!
    Seems Willie was previously married in the summer of 1891. "WILL ELMOURNE, high wire performer, was married to Estella Gross, a non professional, July 28. Mr. Elmourne will retire from the stage and reside in New York." This snippet was gleaned from the New York Clipper, Aug.1891, an entertainment newspaper serving the North American entertainment industry between 1850 and 1925. I have found many references to him in their pages. Dave.

Reply: 23 December, 2005 - It appears from your question that you have read or seen the book by Ralph Hefner. The cover is correct in that the name of the elephant was Modoc and Ralph Hefner did own it. After the cover it's a lot of Phooey with a couple facts thrown in to make a book. There are at least 6 different Modocs over the years with varied circus careers. The elephant that Mr. Hefner owned was called Wallace Modoc or One-eyed Modoc having come from the Hagenbeck-Wallace Circus. She fell under Ringling ownership while Ringling owned the Hagenbeck-Wallace Circus and was in Ringling quarters one year in 1939 before being sold. The dancing and cavorting elephant named Modoc that he alludes to being his was actually Big Modoc and lead a fabled career including many years with the Ringling circus specializing in her famous solo dance down the entire hippodrome track. If you want more details of the individual animals, I'll be glad to provide those to you also. So your answer is, Modoc is real not a myth, but the Hefner book is about as far from the truth as one can get and still claim ownership of the elephant. Bob Cline

Reply: 08 Jan 2008 - Does anyone know what happened to big Modoc? when and where did she die, and was her life as grand as Hefer's book describes? His book just leaves off with no proper finish, and a lot of holes. thomas rose, tinkrose@earthlink.net

Reply: 22 December, 2005 - Hi, I'm 99% sure I know who you are talking about. However this Sarasota based tiger trainer's heritage is Yugoslavian rather than Romanian. "Female apprentice" is the term that caught my attention more than anything else. E-mail me directly, and I will put you in contact with him, ( jscolecircus@webtv.net ) Jim Cole

Reply: 23 December, 2005 - Hi Joe, Probably the last existing American tent circus that resembles a large old style circus would be Carson & Barnes Circus, based out of Hugo, OK. They are currently in winter quarters now, but they usually open in mid to late March in Texas. Their home office phone is 580-326-3173. They also have a web site. (www.carsonbarnescircus.com) You could also contact Kelly Miller Circus, also out of Hugo, OK, (www.kellymillercircus.com) or Walker Bros. Circus out of Sarasota, FL. (www.walkerbotherscircus.com) They are smaller shows, but have retained the traditional American circus format. If you want to use original old style circus wagons for a background, you have 3 possibilities. The Circus World Museum in Baraboo, WI, The Circus Hall of Fame in Peru, IN, and the Ringling Museum in Sarasota, FL. I am not familiar with circuses in the UK. Perhaps another reader is, and can help you out. Jim Cole

Reply: 24 December, 2005 - If your video requires a circus tent that evokes the period up to the 1960s, you probably will not find one used on any circus today. For the time period you are seeking to recreate, most all tents were a solid color, usually white when new but soon light brown as they got dirty through the course of a season of one-day stands. Today, circus tents are striped. Striped tents appeared about the late 1970s when some circuses began to appear at shopping centers and desired the greater attention that a stripped tent provided. Perhaps some readers of this website can provide some examples of shows that first did this but I think Vargus was certainly one. Today, most shows have adopted the multi-colored format though I wonder if there isn't a smaller show or two that still has a solid white top, perhaps used some years ago but kept in reserve. Understand, however, that the sidewall of a tent could have been striped in appearance in the days of the solid white top. In addition, but less significant for its visual appearance in a video, is the material. Tents, of course, were made of canvas (or sail duck as it was commercially known) but by about 1980 a synthetic vinyl replaced the heavier, traditional canvas cloth. One of the first shows to make this change was the Carson & Barnes show. The last of the circuses to give up the traditional canvas was the Beatty show, I believe, in the very early 1990s. One final point in understanding the difference in appearance of a tent of today versus the time period you are seeking to recreate is the arrangement of the main or king poles. Many shows, such as today's Beatty, have adopted a double row in the European manner though Carson & Barnes still has a single row of main poles. As to permanent (I assume you mean in a building) circuses in the south of England, there is only one at Great Yarmouth, a delightful and intimate structure. On the northwest coast near Liverpool, however, is the ornate and famous Blackpool Tower Circus. Both of these wonderful buildings are about a century old and special because the ring descends so it can be flooded for a water spectacle. Richard Flint Baltimore, MD

Reply: 29 December, 2005 - You are in luck. I assume from your message that you may be based in the UK. Gifford's Circus is a modern UK show with an intentionally "retro" look right down to the White Top and the caravans. I believe their number is 01242 572 573. Ben

Reply: 06 Feb 2009 - I found a postcard with the Five Lelands Humban Jugglers. On it says at the Orpheum 1922-3, it has two small pictures of 3 men and 1 woman, and possable male child on it. It was in my fathers belongings when he died. Is that the same ones? Peggy Gordon, Muskogee, OK

Reply: 22 December, 2005 - You're searching for "Unus," known in private life as Franz Furtner. You'll find information at this website. See queries 56, 171 and 723, and perhaps others. You can also try a Google search, archives in Sarasota and Baraboo, etc. He passed away only a few years ago. Fred Dahlinger

Reply: 04 January, 2006 - There is a picture that was posted 1/3/06 on buckles woodcock's Blog page: bucklesw.blogspot.com. fshockley@comcast.net

Reply: 21 December, 2005 - A good first check on posters is their physical size, the height and width of the paper on which they're printed. The standard poster measuring unit is the "one sheet," in either a horizontal or vertical format. It measured, nominally, about 28 inches by 42 inches, in some cases varying as much as an inch in either dimension. The "half-sheet" is a one sheet sliced in half, measuring about 21 inches by 28 inches. Most reproductions have been made with dimensions that are typically two-thirds or three-quarters of those dimensions. Items that measure fractional sizes of the one-sheet and half-sheet are truly suspect as being reproductions. Also watch for posters that have a "P-___" number along the margin; they're reprints, as are "older" items with a glossy finished surface. If you see photographically-reproduced distress or imperfections in a poster, like a tear, that's also an indication that it's a reprint. You can do Google searches for reprinted posters and monitor the on-line auctions. It won't take long to learn the identity of reprints. Watch out for the stories about posters being hidden away for years; they're often false; and some reprints are now approaching the sixth decade of their existence. Dealers that do not readily offer a full money-back guarantee if their items are determined to be reprints, or who will not outright endorse their offering as bonafide originals and offer a refund policy should be avoided. Good advice; if the deal is too good to be true, it probably is. Fred Dahlinger

Reply: 21 December, 2005 - This seems to be a common dilemma among "non circus" history collectors. In the past 30 years or so several old circus posters were re-produced, and many are of a size smaller than their original counterpart. These are showing up for sale everywhere. The standard size for circus posters is usually: 1 sheet, 28" x 42", and a "half sheet" is 21" x 28". More often than not the seller is totally unaware of the original status of his posters. On repro's, there is often small black print in the lower right of the poster that will confirm it is not original. The type of paper it is printed on is also a good clue. Glossy poster stock is a sure sign you have a non original. I once totally ruined an antique dealers day when I proved to him that his "rare PT Barnum" poster was sold by Ringling Bros. Barnum & Bailey Circus in 1970 as part of a 100th anniversary set. If the price is not to steep, and you just want them to decorate your den, then by all means buy them. Otherwise, use caution. Jim Cole

Reply: 19 December, 2005 - You're likely referring to Sarasota, FL, which served as RBBB winter quarters essentially 1928-1956, and somewhat beyond. If he resided there or had a telephone, city and telephone directories should list him and his residence address. You can also check for census information on selected genealogical sites. Consult a local library or genealogical group on how to obtain other vital information concerning your grandfather [birth, death, marriage, etc.]. At the CWM library are employment cards for all RBBB employees 1938-1956. In order by employee name, they provide residency, next of kin, social security number and employment information [job, department, wages and times of employment]. They can be copied. Fred Dahlinger

Reply: 31 December, 2005 - Hi Danny, Your Grandfather could have worked for either the Ringling Show directly or he could have been working for a Mr. Max Weldy. Mr. Weldy made all the costumes for Ringling for many years. Mr. Weldy's operation was located on the lower end of either Main St. or Ringling Blvd. just off of Washington Blvd. in Sarastota. Your Grandfather could also have worked directly for the Ringling Show in the Wardrobe Department. The Wardrobe Dept. took care of all the costumes for the show. They kept them clean, repaired and organized; no small task. When we arrived in New York from Germany, we had to go to Mr. Weldy's in New York for a final fitting,so, he also operated out of New York. You night check if you can find any thing on "Max Weldy" he was also a designer in Paris in the 1920's or early 30's. Hope this helps. Erny Karoly

Reply: 24 June, 2006 - Hello Danny, I was on the Ringling Show from 1953 to the end of 1956. I believe that your grandfather worked for Mrs. Carson in the wardrobe department and that I may have some film of him in the circus movies. Bill Taggart upwey2000@yahoo.com

Reply: 19 December, 2005 - The Brown and Roberts Circus played Knoxville, Tenn. April 7, 1906. Ted Bowman Route Collection

Reply: 19 December, 2005 - Hagenbeck-Wallace wintered in West Baden. An extensive article about their winter quarters was written by Joseph T. Bradbury and printed in Bandwagon, Sept.-Oct. 1972, pages 4-13. There is further coverage in other Bandwagon articles that cover the circuses that wintered at the site. Fred Dahlinger

Reply: 19 December, 2005 - Dear Teresa: Both names are correct. 1st, "Carl Hagenbeck Circus pre-1906, then after 1906 Hagenbeck & Wallace Circus. Hagenbeck sold to Wallace at the end of 1906 and the Circus was named "Hagenbeck & Wallace Circus after that. Carl Hagenbeck tried to prevent his name still being used after he sold the show but, lost and then both names where used. Carl Hagenbeck came from Germany, I believe Hamburg, there he opened one of the first free running zoos. A zoo without cages. The animals where separated and contained by natural boundaries, such as moats, ravines, etc. He also was one of the first to train animals with the reward method instead punishment. My grandparents traveled with Hagenbeck in the U.S. in 1905-6 and also worked with him in Germany. They were Bareback Riders. You can go on the inter-net and find information on Carl Hagenbeck. The Zoo still exists in Hamburg and the have a web site. It will be in German but, they will understand English. Erny Karoly

Reply: 19 December, 2005 - As most of Judy's readers will tell you, the name was spelled "Hagenbeck" but many of the old timers pronounced it "Hagenback." When Hagen Bros Circus was on the road an occasional townsperson would ask, "Is this the same as the old Hagen, Beck and Wallace show?" and if he was asking the right guy he would be told, "Yes; unfortunately Mr Beck died and Mr Wallace retired." Ree-gards, Old Billcar Whitey

Reply: 21 December, 2005 - One circa 1905 American carnival operator who did not have a bonafide arrangement with the famous Hagenbeck of Germany changed the spelling to "Hagenback," with an "a," and painted it that way on his wild animal show front. Fred Dahlinger

Reply: 14 June, 2006 - No he didn't. They were two distinct characters. See biographical section of this website. Don Wilkey, dwilkey@optusnet.com.au

Reply: 17 December, 2005 - Dear Mary, Mona Lisa Cristiani (Tina) was married to my Brother, David Bartok. He passed away in 1963. Her name is now Tina Cristiani Veder. She has Andalusian Horse Farms training in Dressage, in Lake George, New York and Ocala, Florida. Tina is as beautiful as ever and is one of the outstanding trainers in her field. Check aol or google for Andalusian Horses or Dressage Horse Trainers. I will try to find her email and send it to you. Her husband is Bob Veder in Bronx, New York. Hope it helps. Bunni Bartok. BUNNIB1@aol.com

Reply: 17 December, 2005 - At the bottom of this website seems to be contact information for Tina Cristiani Veder - www.andalusian-usa.com. - J. Griffin

Reply: 22 December, 2005 - The Blondin Donkey was with John Robinson in 1888 [year courtesy Ted Bowman Route Collection], in the event that anyone has a program, herald, courier, newspaper ad, Clipper references or any other documentation from that season. Fred Dahlinger

Reply: 17 December, 2005 - The photo you are asking about has been made available for purchase by the newspaper itself. I had the information, but as usual, I can't find it right now. Contact the newspaper directly. Seems to me they were asking $20 or $30 for a copy. Bob Cline

Reply: 19 December, 2005 - The Toledo Times roto section May 23, 1943 shows a picture of Victoria dressed in heavy clothing and a helmet coming out of the mouth of a cannon. The caption notes - When her brothers, Hugo and Mario Zacchini, the human cannon balls, were called to military service, Victoria Zacchini, 18, stepped into their cannon and took over their job. She shoots out of the mouth of the cannon at 360 feet per second. If she was in Buffalo for a week it is most likely she was on a carnival. John Polacsek

Reply: 28 December, 2005 - Thank you very much, John! WmKae@aol.com

Reply: 17 December, 2005 - Try Showfolks of Sarasota Website, www.showfolks.org. Att: Jenny Wallenda or Penny Wilson. They both have been members a long time and Jenny should have the Showfolks Circus Programs as she was the Program Editor. Hope this helps. Best Wishes. Bunni Bartok

Reply: 15 December, 2005 - It was not at all unusual for circuses to transport their performing and other animals by ship. Cooper & Bailey transported many of their animals to Australia in the 1870s, Barnum and Bailey transported theirs to England in the 1890s. There is an article you may be able to obtain via inter-library loan: "At Sea With the Circus," McClure's, Vol. 11, No. 1 (May) 1898. Article starts on page 76. This is pretty close to your time period and describes the transporting of various animals. Perhaps others will have more information. J. Griffin

Reply: 15 December, 2005 - Felix, I too was friends with "Felix". He was in the side show. He would create a horses head out of clay then quickly change it into an elephant and then other animals. He used to always give me a quarter when I would refuse to take it (my European upbringing). He would insist until I took it. Between shows he would make silver and turquoise jewelry. He once took me in to the back of his dressing room and showed me a whole trunk full of jewelry that he had made. I mean one of those steamer trunks full. He offered me my pick but, I was too shy to take anything. It was after that when he started to give me a quarter each time I visited him. I now am sorry that I didn't accept a piece of his jewelry as a memento of him. I have a book in my house in Virginia, I live in NC, that has his picture in it. I'm sorry but, I don't recall the title. I too have often thought of Felix and wondered what happened to him. I was only 11 years old back in 1955 and could not speak English at the time. For me Felix was my Hero, I mean a real true American Indian to have as a friend to a boy from Germany was really something. Erny Karoly

Reply: 31 December, 2005 - Is it possible the man you refer to is Nabor Feliz? http://www.quasi-modo.net/Nabor_Feliz. Tom Hernandez

Reply: 18 May, 2006 - I have some informations in my fam tree maker because the Blumenfelds are related to the Goldkettes. jetgold@webspeed.dk

Reply: 14 September, 2006 - Hey Marcus. We are related Blumenfelds and Goldkette If you want I can invite you to my site on Ancestry com? Then you will see all about the families. Is it possible you will mail your parents names birth married and if you have a wife, her name, children with many regards, jetgold, jetgold@webspeed.dk

Reply: 21 September, 2006 - My name is Jette Goldkette Sørensen and today I had invited you to my site on Ancestry com, from them you will receive instructions to go on my site. jetgold@webspeed.dk

Reply: 17 October, 2006 - My name is Mrs. H.Best-Otte and if you want photos and posters because circus Blumenfeld I had invited you to the side www.circusmuseum.nl/eng Dutch side

Reply: 15 December, 2005 - Steve Gossard wrote a good article about the Wards that was published in Bandwagon, Nov-Dec 1986. Fred Dahlinger [check this website for ordering back issues of Bandwagon - J. Griffin]

Reply: 15 December, 2005 - Thank you Fred! BK

Reply: 23 March, 2007 - I own a poster dated 1932 showing the Nine Flying Wards, three men and six women. It states at the bottom of the poster that they worked for years for the Sells-Foto cicus. George Sutton

Reply: 30 May 2008 - I am the great grandaughter of Lucy Gillette. She was a "slave" in Cuba for many years until Ringling Brothers paid her way out of it. They took her to Germany where she married that is where she took the name of Lucy Gillette. She would never tell my mother her name before that so I have to do a little more research of our family tree. She became the first person to be shot from a cannon for Ringling Brothers and the first one to do the Death Leap. That's where they fake the trapeze breaking and she lands in to the net. She just recently past in the past year. I'll find out when and how old she was and get back to you. With this I hope my Oma's memory lives on forever. chrystal merrell, sailorserpent@yahoo.com

Reply: 13 December, 2005 - Search "perpetual calendar" or "wiskit.com" and you should get it. Select the month and type in the year and the numbers change without doing anything else. Thank you for asking. Now I can throw away the tattered sheet I've been using for 20 years. R.A.G.

Reply: 14 January, 2007 - Hi Peggy. My grandmother was Hilda Nelson, one of the Flying Nelsons who passed away in the 1970s. My mother (Hilda's daughter) still lives in Mt. Clemens, MI, where the Nelson family home was for many years. Let me know if this information might be helpful, I can be reached at zoyd23@yahoo.com. Cheers, JT Gillett

Reply: 27 December, 2005 - I'm a former rider from the Royal Hanneford show. I am no longer in circus, but have developed my own equestrian acts. I am not sure where this is all going to lead. I work strictly bareback. Instead of correcting the horse with checks and tie downs, I ride to accommodate the horse. No hidden gimmicks here. I believe I have the only "at liberty" vaulting horse, controlled by vocal commands only! My new website www.jdwinslowequestrianentertainment.com should be available soon. winspro@capital.net

Reply: 13 December, 2005 - I would imagine that Carl Hagenbeck would have to be at the top of your list. Erny Karoly

Reply: 13 December, 2005 - See Thayer's "American Circus Anthology" on this website. Slout

    My name is Judy Cooke. A month or so ago I promised to let the folks on a circus board know when I'd be listing a collection of W. W. Cole letters on Ebay. Actually the information was posted on the board by one of your members, which I am not. Unfortunately I had a hard drive crash a few weeks ago and have lost the email address and name of the fellow who alerted your board (I think it was your board anyway) He's in the UK, I think, and he and I originally connected on the Cooke genealogy circus board. Anyway, I feel badly about not being able to follow through as I promised, so will am going to send the information to a few names, yours being one of them, in hopes it finds the right folks. The auction will start on Monday night around 10:00 Ebay time. As I said before, it will be listed under the Ebay selling name of ergoiamtoo. There will be 47 pieces in the listing. I'm not telling you about this in order to line my pockets but so that any interested enthusiasts can grab the text in the listing. I've transcribed every single letter in the listing with that in mind and sincerely hope circus historians will enjoy adding the info to their collections. Thank you, Judy Cooke. Respond to this message, your reply goes to this board, not to the sender.

Reply: 13 December, 2005 - A Mrs. Kenneth Hoyt from Havana, Cuba was the owner of Toto, a female gorilla that was on the Ringling Show in the 40's & 50's. I don't know of any other woman owning a gorilla. The story goes, according to Mr. Jose Thomas, her keeper, as follows. Mrs. Hoyt and her husband were on safari in was then the Belgian Congo, and was given a baby gorilla when the mother was killed. "Toto" means "little child" in Swahili. To the best of my knowledge, Toto was only on loan to Ringling and always belonged to Mrs. Hoyt. I have a picture of Mrs. Hoyt and John North that was taken in New York in the early 50's. I also have a picture of me kissing Toto. Erny Karoly

Reply: 16 December, 2005 - I think the gorilla Ted is talking about could be the Toto that "Lady Mackenzie brought back from East Africa, along with the film of her big game-hunting expedtion." Toto lived with her in her apartment in the Hotel Belnord, 86th & Broadway, NYC. This is from a small article on Lady Constantine Mackenzie and Toto in the Newark (NJ) Evening Star, June 3, 1915. - J. Griffin

Reply: 12 December, 2005 - There is a short article on the John A. Strong Circus, with photos, in Bandwagon, July-Aug. 1961 pp. 13-14. It was a small circus, based out of Thousand Oaks. The article gives information on the show. This article will be on the CHS website in the near future. Check the Bandwagon Index for 1957-1997 for this article in a few weeks. J. Griffin

Reply: 31 January, 2007 - Dear Ester, If memory seves me right you also had a sister correct? Maybe not, but the name sounds familiar. Nevertheless it was nice reading knowing I left some impressions on my class mates. As it turned out our circus grew to 3 rings under tent & we would travel during the summer from CA to NY then up to Canada and across back to TO. However when I turned 17 graduated HS I ran away from the circus and joined the US Navy for 10 years, then as life would have it I was involved in a car accident in New England, spent 15 months in the hospital because they said breaking my neck in 2 places shattering my left ankle breaking my left femur in 2 places I was never going to walk again. However, having Strong as my last name I did what I could to live up to it. Currently I am living in Ojai w/ my best friend Gypz who is a 6yr old jack russell. The last time I rode any elephant was back in the 80's. Thanks so much for your inquiry, please feel free to contact me at gypzsailor@yahoo.com anytime. Circusly yours, Linda Strong

Reply: 12 April, 2007 - Dear Linda Strong, I came upon your post here as I was searching for some current information on the John Strong Family Circus. It was great to find a current contact! However, when I tried to reply to the eddress you supplied in your letter to Ester (gypasailor@yahoo.com) my post bounced. I presume there was a typo in it. So I am now trying to go through the message board itself.
      In 1981, when I was living outside of Ukiah, California, I had an interesting experience with John Strong, Jr. - your brother? I was raising living Unicorns at the time, and while I was away from our ranch, he evidently drove up there and kidnapped one of our baby Unicorns! When I returned, we reported the disappearance to the police, and they tracked our little guy down within a few days, where he'd been corralled in John's sideshow. I cannot imagine how John thought that he could make off with something so utterly unique, and get away with it - did he think no one would notice? Or that no one would connect the baby Unicorn he suddenly showed up with to the one reported missing?
      In any case, when I came down to collect our little Unicorn, John and I ended up actually hitting it off. He invited me into his trailer, where we had a great time exchanging wild stories over a few drinks. Then he gave me a tour of his collection.
      And this brings me to the reason for this letter. I am currently writing a book on mythical creatures of all kinds, through the ages. I am now working on the chapter on Bigfoot, Yeti, and other "Hairy Hominids." I just typed the following paragraph, and then I decided to do a web search for more info, and lo and behold, I found you! (see below)
      "In 1981, at a County Fair in northern California, I personally viewed what appeared to be the mummified body of a 7-ft-tall female Bigfoot exhibited as a sideshow attraction by John Strong Jr. of the John Strong Family Circus. I have never come across any mention of this specimen in the Bigfoot literature, and I have never managed to re-connect with that circus since. I presume Strong’s collection (which he inherited from his father) is still out there somewhere, and this may be the most important piece of concrete evidence in existence for the Bigfoot case."
      Can you supply me with any more information on this exhibit? Or, best yet, put me in contact with John? I would love to have a photo in the book, and as much more information as I can get! Is the circus still touring in California? I am presently living in Sonoma County, just outside of Cotati, and if possible, I'd love to be able to come see the collection, and especially this particular specimen. Sincerely, Oberon Zell, Oberon@mcn.org, Cotati, CA.
      P.S: If John remembers me - as well he should! - the name he would know me by from that time would be "Otter G'Zell."

Reply: 13 December, 2005 - Whew Darren! I was holding my breath in hopes that you weren't gonna ask if doing somersaults was true. Thankfully you read that as intended w/writer's tongue in cheek. Danny

Reply: 18 December, 2005 - I wouldn't rule it out too quickly! Buckles has trained elephants to do some amazing things. He sent me a picture of an elephant that he trained to ride a kid's tricycle. I wasn't sure who to be the most impressed with - the elephant trainer or the maker of the tricycle? Darren Bryan in Georgia, darrenrx@bellsouth.net

Reply: 12 December, 2005 - Dale and Evelyn Riker recently managed the publication of Dorothy Herbert's "Riding Sensation of the Age; A Memoir," in book form. You can get further information about buying a copy by writing Circus and Traveling Show Retirement Project [CATS], P. O. Box 2085, Sarasota, FL 34230. Fred Dahlinger

Reply: 01 June, 2006 - If Dorothy Herbert was your grandmother's sister then your grandmother's mother had to be Mabel Lancaster. I knew them in Indiana when I was a teenager in the 1930s. Let me hear from you. Jack Ulen, ju6308@aol.com

Reply: 02 October, 2006 - Dorothy Herbert along with A.W. traveled with my family's wild animal show (Gene Holter's Movieland Animals) for 2 seasons, I'm not sure of the years but believe it was 1969 & 1970. I loved being around Dorothy, she was so kind, between shows or on our days off she taught me how to put a high step on one of our ranch horses and inlightened me on how to use my hands down to my toes on a horse. I'll never forget a complement she gave me "you have very good hands, you feel a horse well" that meant so much to me, I was 9 years old at the time. Dorothy told me how she was strapped to the belly of a black stallion that ran with a herd of horse going over jumps I asked why she didn't get hurt and she said because it was the stallion she was strapped to and the other horses would keep their distance from him, I was so impressed by this beautiful little lady. Kathy Holter Nealey

Reply: 04 January, 2007 - I read the book about Dorothy Herbert. It is excellent. I wish I had thought to join the circus as a young girl. I love horses and now have 5. Used to own a liberty horse trained by Sylvia Burrage and it was Sylvia who bought me the book about Dorothy. Linda Tygenhof

Reply: 08 May 2007 - I worked with Dorothy in Alaska on Gene Holter's Circus. She taught me much about what I know of sidesaddle. I had a sidesaddle dancing horse and sidesaddle car jumping horse - she helped me with both of them. In return, I helped her with her ponies. She was a sweetheart. Mary Rivers

Reply: 15 Oct 2007 - After reading Dorothy Herbert's Memoir, my sister and I have figured out that Dorothy's father, a Herbert, was our great uncle. Our Great Aunt Mabel (Lancaster) was Dorothy's mother and we have met her. Neither of us has ever met Dorothy's father, who we figure was our Grandmother Victoria (nee Herbert) Jaap Grafmiller's brother. Would like to hear from you. Rae Reynolds Herbst, gnarley@fuse.net

Reply: 26 Nov 2007 - I recently came across a Ringling Bros. circus poster that featured Dorothy Herbert. I have been trying to find the year it was printed but corner with the dates of the show is mostly missing. All I can give for information is that the show was in Portland, ME on June twenty-something. If anyone can help narrow down the year, it would be most appreciated. I can provide a picture if interested. Andrew Purcell, umagma@securespeed.us

Reply: 15 Mar 2008 - Hi Linda, Your message 1003 Dorothy Herbert, 11 Dec. 2005? I wonder if you would contact me, to maybe share some info, about the "Herbert Family?" Or "Herbert Bros.?" I'm doing a research on a Robert Fred Herbert, born 1877, in Ontario, Canada, and am lost for leads! I can explain, when you email me. Thanks! Pat Morris, pmorris@bmts.com

Reply: 28 Mar 2008 - For a book I'm completing that concerns Thousand Oaks animal trainer Tony Gentry (1906-1993), I've learned that Dorothy Herbert was his close companion for the last several years of his life. They were both looked after at their Newbury Park, CA, home by Modestine Tardif, who has great affection for Dorothy and many wonderful memories, anecdotes, and possibly some memorabilia. [Contact Richard for her phone number.] Good luck. Richard Rosen, richarddeanrosen@gmail.com

Reply: 27 Jul 2008 - Dorothy Herbert had a supporting role in the 1940 Republic serial THE MYSTERIOUS DR. SATAN. It can be ordered on DVD from OldsouthDVD. Eric Beheim, Descanso, CA

Reply: 15 December, 2005 - I don't know if this is the same person? I delivered the daily news paper in Sarasota, Fl in the late 1950's to an ex circus rider. I'm not sure any more but, I do believe it was Mr. Cropper? He lived down the street from me on Lime Avenue. He also had an old circus wagon wheel in his front yard. The very decorated wagon wheel that you see in circus museums. My sister, Evy was friends with Mr. Cropper. If I find out anything from her I'll pass it on. Erny Karoly

Reply: 24 June, 2006 - Tommy Cropper drove on of the circus buses in the 1950's, before that he was a rider of high jumping horses around the hippodrome track. His most famous mount was a horse names Mac Arthur that jumped high hurdles. He was a friendly and wonderful person. Bill Taggart upwey2000@yahoo.com

Reply: 24 Oct 2009 - Tommy Cropper was my mother’s uncle. My grandmother and he had adjacent houses on North Lime Ave in Sarasota back in the 70’s. As the story goes, he ran away from home as a teenager and joined the circus. Mom told stories of visiting him when the circus came to town (early to mid 40’s). He was billed as the greatest trick rider in the world? By the 70’s he was married to a woman named Mavis, but I remember hearing about Aunt Roxie too. I forgot all about the wagon wheel in front of his house until I read the above post. I was telling my kids about him and we were trying to find out more info and stumbled across your post. As I recall he was cool for 2 reasons: 1. He had big tattoo’s on his forearms and he always gave us kids real silver dollars for ice cream when we visited back in the 70’s. I think he died around 1980 or so. James

Reply: 12 December, 2005 - Motorcycle dromes and silos are part of carnival history. They were not part of the circus business, except in some limited ways, such as the "globe of death." You can find some information about the cycle exhibitions in Al Stencell's tribute to side shows, "Seeing is Believing." Fred Dahlinger