Reply: 12 Oct 2007 - If you go to the Circus Fans Association website, you’ll find a link for Buckles Woodcock’s fantastic blog site. Once you get on Buckles site, he has several links to other great sites maintained by Jim Peterson and Bill Strong. All of them come with trivia, humor, and memories of circus past. I think you’ll enjoy them. If you search the internet, I’m sure you’ll find others as well. Buckles blog just had the link in one of its posts for a terrific site in Europe. Bob Cline

Reply: 07 Oct 2007 - Parkinson's title list provides operational dates of 1911 to 1914 for this show, with the proprietors identified as Fred, Charles, Bert and Otto Lampe. It was likely a local or regional overland show, horses and wagons, in the era before truck operations over highways were common. Sturtevant lists it only in 1914, which suggests that coverage in the two principal trade journals, "Billboard" and "New York Clipper," is limited. I'd recommend that you start your search by scanning local newspapers for coverage. The initiation of a local circus is often commented upon as it's quite a novelty. If any of the local papers have been scanned and digitized for key word searching, you'll be very lucky. Check with your local librarian about such resources. George Chindahl had an interest in small shows and there may be some notes that he extracted from trade journals in his note cards at the CWM library. You can also flesh out the stories of the proprietors by checking census records, local city directories, real estate and other records that are readily available to the public. Hopefully, when you share your earnest research with the reluctant relative the barriers will melt away. Fred Dahlinger

Reply: 24 Apr 2008 - In response to the "Lampe Brothers Circus" and specifically Michael Byro - I'm sure Kenwood Lampe (not John Lampe) from Bloomingdale, NJ would be more than happy to share photos and archives. In fact, both he and his brother John Lampe are documenting some of their memories. Feel free to call him Michael.

Reply: 07 Jan 2008 - I actually was a piano student of Princess Whitecloud, at Werlien's music store, in Biloxi, Mississippi. She was exceptional - jazz/blues was her background, as she played in Pete Fountain's band. She called me her prized child prodigy - I was 6, and she was a little upset when she found out that after my lesson was over with her - I had another lesson with a flute instructor. " Can't serve two masters, she used to say". LOL She was a woman that inspired me musically and creatively. God bless you, Princess Whitecloud. PS - she actually wore her formal Indian attire, head gear and all, and was a true native American, and was never seen out of her Princess clothes, de cored with diamonds and elegance! BlondeTraceLacey@aol.com

Reply: 13 Jan 2008 - I have additional information about Princess Whitecloud - She was under the management of Bert Gervis, 203 Wabash Ave, Chicago. I have a vintage black and white poster with her "Singing Sweetheart of the Sioux" playing at Rendezvous Lounge, Alexandria, LA. The above poster and information are courtesy of The Billboard 1944 Music Year Book, page 315. I received this poster from a collector of musicians of that era via E-Bay- and purchased the poster. I hope this helps. Again, she was an exceptional musician as well as a human being. RIP, Princess Whitecloud. BlondeTraceLacey@aol.com

Reply: 23 Jun 2008 - New information: I have a record album of Princess Whitecloud - recorded when she worked at Werleins in Biloxi, Mississippi. The style is clearly American Indian, and the artist was "Ed White Cloud Hauff" - as best as I can decipher it. I noted that Mr. Hauff name was on a "looking for" list of New Orleans residents displaced by Katrina. See http://edward-hauff.katrina.aidpage.com/. Here is most of the text: posted on on Sep 15, 2005
      EDWARD HAUFF Mother's Name: PRINCESS WHITECLOUD Father's Name: HAROLD JOSEPH ESTOPINAL Sex: M Date of Birth: 1.1.1937 (Approximate) Place of Birth: DENVER, COLORADO The person sought is my: Friend (Male) Author Full Name: HAROLD J. ESTOPINAL Author City and State of Residence before the disaster: NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA Author Mother's Name: OCTAVIA ROSE ESTOPINAL Street+No/Camp - Line 1 Street+No/Camp - Line 2 Street+No/Camp - Line 3: 404 DAFFODIL COURT Location: FRANKLIN, TN
      Although I never knew her personally, I knew of her fame on the Gulf Coast. I can still see her riding in a convertible down (what is now) Fred Hayes Bldv - decked out in full war bonnet headdress, and a white rhinestone encrusted "buckskin" dress. She rode ahead of the Biloxi High School Indians marching band.
      One of her close friends was Dr. Lawrence Oden, the organist for the Episcopal Church of the Redeemer; he was also my piano teacher. I recall him telling me that she was a highly educated musician (graduate of Julliard), spoke several languages, and served in the diplomatic corps. I've often wanted. If anyone is interested, I'll provide the liner notes of her record. Regards, Fred Klein

Reply: 26 Aug 2008 - For all interested, The complete album SOUNDS OF PRINCESS WHITECLOUD - sound tracks and liner notes - is now available (free) at http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=
2ae3acf9214f8786ab1eab3e9fa335caa88c3c0a25e6e0a7. - Fred Klein

Reply: 06 Oct 2007 - I saw one set-up in Myrtle Beach, SC at a bike rally about five years ago. I don’t know who had it as I didn’t stop but I was sure surprised to see it. Bob Cline

Reply: 07 Oct 2007 - I would like to thank Bob Cline for his response to my questions. Thank you at Circus History also. Charles Coats, Melb. Fl.

Reply: 24 Oct 2007 - Coleman Bros. Shows from Middletown CT had one in great shape. I am not sure if they still have it or not. Hope this helps, HD15218@webtv.net

Reply: 06 Oct 2007 - Terry - My "e" mail address is gavioli@nivets.com. Bill Hall

Reply: 06 Oct 2007 - Have you tried kmauser@strates.com. Good luck. Charles Coats Melb. Fl.

Reply: 08 Oct 2007 - Thanks Guys! Bill Did Email Me! Terry Heininger

Reply: 05 Jan 2008 - We are good friends with Anouk Schmidt, her email is tzigan5@hotmail.com. Denise Drever Kestrelfarm@fairpoint.net

Reply: 06 Oct 2007 - A good place to start is the Waco area Historical Society. There honestly is no way of knowing what they have as each area’s history is documented differently as to what was important at the time. There might be a Museum around there. If you know some of the dates that shows were in the area, you could scroll through the local newspapers for old articles and a chance of a photo there. You might find a circus fan whether they belonged to any of the Circus organizations or not from the area that can help. I know the Hertzberg Circus Museum in San Antonio is in storage now, but I have no idea if it’s archives are accessible or not. Hope this helps. Bob Cline

Reply: 06 Oct 2007 - The best place to look for Waco-area circus train photography is in Waco and Texas, at the libraries and historical societies. City, county and state facilities often have good regional coverage. Some local collections are in national repositories and they can also be checked.
      Check with local photographers who have been in business a long time, or others that may have acquired the negatives of photographers who have left the business or are deceased. Private collectors of local photography and real photo postcards can also turn out to be good sources. You can run an ad in local newspaper classifieds, though that's seldom been a fruitful action.
      You might also check repositories for the railroads that brought shows to Waco during the time frame of interest to you. There are historical societies for some of them and sometimes they include older images of circus trains.
      Circus images in circus collections are typically filed by show title, such as Barnum & Bailey or Hagenbeck-Wallace, not by their location. You'd have to find a file of routes to extract dates for Waco, or else peruse back issues of the Waco newspapers to yield advertisements advising of their performance dates. With a listing of show titles and dates you can then peruse gathered files of circus photographs for images taken in Waco. If you're lucky, perhaps one or more of the Waco newspapers has been scanned and digitized and made available with key word searching on line. Check with your local librarian for assistance, if you're unsure how to determine availability and access.
      There was a substantial number of photographs taken of the Ringling show in Texas in 1902. Some may have been taken in Waco. The negatives for the images are now at the Circus World Museum. My recollection is that perhaps some RBBB photos taken by Frank Updegrove may have been taken in Waco, too. His negatives were destroyed in a fire years ago and prints of them are scarce and hard to find. Fred Dahlinger

Reply: 12 Nov 2007 - My parents were Lucky Robinson and Rita Robinson. My father and your father were friends, I have a picture of them together. They both trick roped and were fancy trick riders. I would like to exchange information with you. I have a couple of pictures of your dad one when he was about 20 years old. And one with Tom Mix and your father's agent. Please let me know if you like to have copy of these pictures. Mary (phxbird@mchis.com)

Reply: 28 Dec 2007 - In reply to the Sky King Bill Atterbury, query. I am confused. My first husband, Fred Dubsky, worked for Bill in the 50's. They had the poles and went up fooled around awhile, then one took off his colorful vest, they exchanged poles,etc. They toured the US, for about 2 years, and then went their seperate ways. At that time(and it was at least by 1955, Bill was married to Noreen and lived in Springfield Missouri. Had two children "Billy" and a girl whose name I forget. We lived at the compound outside Springfield. I am pretty sure it was off Route 66. Much later, sometime in the 60's, (maybe ten years or so), I went back to visit. Noreen was there, don't remember what she said about Bill being somewhere, or what. He may have been gone by then. I personally never had much to do with Bill, don't remember him being a "talker". But am confused about him being hit by a truck and/or living with an artist. I AM sure about the time frame. M.Dickens, New Iberia, LA.

Reply: 10 Dec 2007 - ALMOST :) Circus MARK, founder Otto Mark. which I think you must mean, was taken over by Althofs sometime after WWII. Could the 'Mendles' have actually been Mendes? But it would help to know what the trio actually did. Natasha Gerson

Reply: 11 Dec 2007 - Thank you so mush for your response. The name was definitely Mendel. It was a husband and wife and my mother worked with them for a few years. They did hand balancing. My mother was with them from about 1943 until 1949 maybe. Any idea what year Althoffs would have taken it over and any other details would be great. Do you know if Otto Mark ever used the name Tarzano? Thank you. Sylvia Hernandez DiStasi

Reply: 07 Oct 2007 - There are some very kind and helpful people that manage the Eastern States Exposition. I'm sure that they'll know the outcome of the accident and the status of the performer. You can connect with them through their website or by sending a query to info@thebige.com. Fred Dahlinger

*The Seils-Sterling Circus (11"X7" black & white Photo)
Dated: back of wagon says 25years
Photo By:Merrick Studio (119 1/2 N 6th Street Marshall Ill.)
Their are 9 people, 2 elephants, 1 camel 2 humps, 10 pinto ponies, my Great Grandfather (Joseph A. Sweet-sword swallower) is on left side holding the Camel.

*The Seils-Sterling Four Ring Circus (12"X20" black & white Photo)
Dated: August 23rd 1936 (Ripon, Wis.)
Photo By: EJKelty (Century 110 w 46 n.y.c. 41A)
There are 129 people in this picture and no animals. My Great Grandfather (Joseph A. Sweet-sword swallower) is in the second row 2nd from the left with sword in hand.

*Russell Bros. Circus (12"X20" black & white Photo)
Dated: June 18,1934 (Hudson N.Y.)
Photo By: EJKelty (Century 74w47 n.y.c. B)
C.W. Webb, Manager Bob Fisher, Equestrian Director
There are 83 people in this picture: 1 monkey (2nd row center), 3 monkeys in cage (2nd row rightside), 1 dog (front row bottom right), 2 horses (grazing rightside), 2 tents, my Great Grandfather (Joseph A. Sweet-sword swallower) is in the fifth row 6th from the right.

I also have the following photos:

*Photo by: Campbells Photo Art (Dayton Ohio) A-13z(3 1/2"X5 1/2" black & white Photo)
Greetings from the Biggest Couple -Fisher- With The Greatest Show on Earth

*Photo By: Beckey(3 1/2"X5 1/2" black & white Photo 4943)
Tiny Cowan 18 years old weight 584lbs. 6ft tall

*Photo By: Perrtz (York,Pa.)(4 1/4"X61/2" black & white Photo)
Tallest man in the world 9ft. 1/2"

*Photo By: Chas. Eiseenmann photographer 229. Bowery,New -York(41/4"X61/4" black & white Photo)
Shirlds Brothers. 8ft and 8ft1"

*Photo By: Orgill 275 Main St. Hartford,Conn (4 1/4"X6 1/2" black & white photo)
Unknown person (older man with suit on)

One Photo (.2"X3") no date of Joseph A. Sweet standing with sword down his throat in front of a tent with an intro about himself.

One Photo (2"X1 1/2") no date of Joseph A. Sweet standing next to a circus poster that reads: Sweet Weldon Variety Co. Red Pepper Joe J .A. Sweet

Two Photo's dated 1963 of Joseph A. Sweet and 12 other people 2 caucasan boys(twins) the other 9 are Indians.

Death of Jumbo 8'X10' b&w photo by:Scott W Hopkins
St.Thomas Ont. Canada Sept. 15,1885
From left to Right (WRITTEN ON BACK OF PHOTO)
Wm. Gearney in Cab (fireman)
D. Nelson in gangway (engineer)
Dick Wamsly by engineer on fender (brakeman)
Wm. Bluckall in light overalls (fireman)
Billy Hume (brakeman)
Dixey Austin at back of fender

Any help putting names to these faces would be greatly appreciated. Thank You, Mary Padula, Chino, Calif. Email address: Mleahjones@aol.com. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

Reply: 07 Oct 2007 - You've probably found the basic entry in Slout's "Olympians" on this website. An older article about Germani by James Shettel is in "White Tops," Aug-Sept 1937. Toole-Stott misspelled his name in the index to his Vol. III. There are likely references to Germani in the Chindahl notecards and clipping files at CWM and the usual newspaper and "Clipper" searches would reveal more. His circus career will largely be covered in Thayer's "Annals." A horse named Black Eagle that he reportedly trained for Howes & Cushing was illustrated in the "Illustrated London News," June 12, 1858. It was presented by John Murray. The tidbits and details of Germani's life will likely be in newspapers and the columns of "Clipper." A check of his obituary may offer some insights, since he had some profile for his skill and royal appearance. Glenroy's book, transcribed and available on this website with key word searching, includes just one mention of him and makes no statement beyond his prowess as a ring performer. Fred Dahlinger

Reply: 27 Sep 2007 - RBBB played Havana each December-January from the end of the regular 1949 season thorough the end of that in 1955. These shows were not as extensive as what one saw on the road during the regular season, but it was a quality presentation. The performers usually flew down while railroad flat cars with cage wagons (both menagerie and performing animals) and some baggage wagons plus stock cars with elephants and horses were shipped on the Havana car ferry from Port Everglades to Havana. Prior to that, many RBBB performers worked a string of winter indoor dates, e.g., Shrine circuses and in Europe. But RBBB got none of that revenue. So, why not do a winter show itself? Havana was a partial answer. It was the beginning of the trend toward nearly year round operations for RBBB. - Richard Reynolds

Reply: 28 Sep 2007 - Roland Butler wrote in the 1950 route book that on Dec. 8, 1949 the circus exhibited in Cuba for the first time when it opened a 32 day indoor engagement at the government owned Sports Palace in Havana. The circus closed in a 'blaze of glory' Sunday night Jan. 8. 1950. All of the circus foremost acts and features that could be crammed into the one-ring arena were taken to Havana. The show's personnel was flown to the island, while a train loaded with animals and equipment was transported by boat. The 1950 date was to start Dec. 8, the same opening date as in '49. Ted Bowman Route Collection.

Reply: 01 Oct 2007 - Ted, that’s great information. Thanks. So it sounds like my poster was actually printed/posted in 1949 since the show ran through the holidays and into the new year. Any one care to speculate on the rarity of a RBBB poster from the Havana bookings? This is the only one I’ve ever seen. Chris Berry chris.berrydc@gmail.com

Reply: 06 Oct 2007 - Not too sure about Perry Bros New Circus. I do know that Perry Bros circus could have been in Quorn SA at that time on the way to Western Australia where they toured in 1920. I have covered a lot of history on my family Perry Bros in my book Sawdust & Headaches but never seen a Perry Bros New Circus. robert.perry3@bigpond.com

Reply: 24 Sep 2007 - Unfortunately, there's not a current website broadly fielding questions about American carnival activity. There are some people with broad knowledge and scattered collections, such as the holdings of the International Independent Showmens Foundation in Gibsonton, FL.
      Bob Goldsack published an extended article about the Hennies Bros. Shows in the Vol. II, No. 2 issue of his now defunct magazine, "Midway Journal Illustrated," pages 17-31. There is some basic information in Joe McKennon's book, "Pictorial History of the American Carnival." You might be able to obtain both via interlibrary loan.
      Orville died at Great Falls, Montana on August 8, 1939. Unfortunately, no readily available death notice was found for Harry W. Hennies. Perhaps one of the carnival historians will be able to post a date for you.
      According to Goldsack, the Hennies outfit was re-titled Amusement Corporation of America in 1951 [1953 in another source] and later became Olson Shows, which was eventually acquired by the late Rod Link. Olson died several decades ago and most of the Link family members are also deceased. Fred Dahlinger

Reply: 11 Oct 2007 - I did a Google search on Olson Shows and found this site. I worked for Clint Shuford 1967-1968 who booked concessions (candy apples, popcorn, cotton candy, etc) on the Olson Shows. I would be interested to hear from someone that had any information about Mr.Shuford. I know that he died about 1973. He also served as secretary for the Hot Springs Showmen’s Association for many years. Robert L. Brown, rb9273@att.com

Reply: 23 Sep 2007 - This is a long shot, assuming you are based in Japan. There is or was a gentlemen who wrote extensively on world circuses (for Australia's Outdoor Showman); were this tale, which strikes me as bogus, true, surely he might know something about it: His name is Dr. Shigi Yajima, and he was affiliated at one time (circs 1970) with Ashton's Circus in Australia. For a time, we corresponded. If you do reach Dr. Yajima, please in return, would you kindly forward me contact information as I would like to write to him. Thank you. David Lewis Hammarstrom, davidnow@juno.com

Reply: 26 Sep 2007 - Dr Shiji Yajima passed away some time ago. Yes, he was with Ashtons & other Australian circuses. robert.perry3@bigpond.com

Reply: 21 Sep 2007 - You should begin with Brick's autobiographical "Jungle Be Gentle," first published in London in 1960. Each of its many chapters deals with the various animals with which he worked. - Richard Flint, Baltimore

Reply: 24 Sep 2007 - On www.circusmuseum.nl/eng I found a personal note and a photograph signed H. Brick. Search for "Brick". Herman Voogd, hvoogd@teylersmuseum.nl

Reply: 27 Sep 2007 - Back in April there was a lot back and forth on the Buckles Blog about Hans Brick. I got into it and here is some of what was said - The lead off question was by me, to wit: WHO WAS HANS BRICK? Does anyone have information about a wild animal trainer named Hans Brick? In 1960 he wrote a book, JUNGLE BE GENTLE, published in London by Peter Davies. In it he describes what must have been the most exotic animal act ever seen. On page 127 he described it as follows: "A rhino with a gaudy macaw perched on his back led the most exotic group I ever trained. The act consisted of a rhino with his attending parrot, a hippopotamus, two goats, a zebra, a giraffe (with a chimp as jockey), and an Indian tapir. It was with Circus Novacek and Richter, and we made a world tour beginning in Egypt and ending in the Far East. This exotic group was a sensation with audiences wherever we went." I have never heard of an Indian (Malayan) tapir in a circus performance or for that matter a tapir of any species in the ring. I have no idea of what point in time this might have been. The cast of animals and the route of the tour make me think it was well before World War II. Further I never heard of the Circus Novacek and Richter; it sounds possibly German, Czech, or Hungarian. The book was published in 1960 so Brick must have been alive then. Who can help with this? Perhaps Henry Pendorff, Felipe Von Gilsner, or James Clubb? The best information came back from Henry Pendorff, to wit: I am flattered that Mr. Reynolds thought that I could help in answering his question about Hans Brick. My knowledge of Hans Brick's name is limited to seeing it in connection with animal training, but I don't remember exactly where. Mr. Reynolds' question has certainly piqued my interest. If you would you please convey the following information on Hans Brick to Mr. Reynolds.
      The original book that Mr. Reynolds refers to "Jungle Be Good" was indeed published in Great Britain in 1960. In 1962, Crown Publishers published an American edition of Hans Brick's book under the title of "The Nature Of The Beast". There is a copy of the American edition currently up for sale on eBay.
      There is some speculation that Hans Brick did not write "Jungle Be Good" himself, and that it may have been written by a close friend, Edward Campbell, a respected British journalist. Mr. Campbell had a passion for the circus and was acknowledged as an authority on the training of wild animals. He even trained a mixed cage act himself, consisting of several lions an a bear, to demonstrate that animals could be trained humanely. A review of "Jungle Be Good" said that the book is more of a primer on animal training than an autobiography of Hans Brick's life.
      I did a "Google" search of Hans Brick. The Internet offered little information. There was almost no biographical information on Hans Brick. The bulk of the information that I found comes from the text of a lecture delivered by Edward Campbell in 1971, titled "Some Unusual Aspects of Communication." Here are the few items that I found...
      He was German born. His family had a tradition of handling and training wild animals. Hans Brick was a gifted animal trainer, and spent the majority his life observing, trapping, and training a variety of animals. During World War II he was interned on the Isle of Man as a German National. In 1943 Hans Brick trained and supplied animals for the production of the Pinewood Studios film "The Dark Tower".
      I also found what appears to be a statement of Hans Brick's philosophy on animal training. "Breakers and trainers in general are innate animal-lovers. Do not force your friendship on any animal, but make your friendship available at all times". That is the Hans Brick's golden rule.
      The most interesting item I found was that Hans Brick taught a lion to fetch, just like a dog. He trained his favorite lion, Habibi to launch a "dart" from a spring loaded gun, chase after it, then return with it and lay the "dart" at Hans Brick's feet.
      Hans Brick died at age 72 on August 22, 1972 in Middlesex, England.
      There were some inconsistencies in some of the information I found. There was a statement that said his father, an animal trainer was killed by a tiger while at the Nouma Hava Menagerie (Italy) in 1889. If Hans Brick died at age 72 in 1972, the date of his birth would be around 1900. The math there does not add up. Another item said that Hans Brick built the circus at Chessington. The number of animals that were quoted in the following sentence, "Stock is 406 mammals in 103 species; 568 birds in 136 species; 28 reptiles and amphibians in 19 and 58 species respectively", leads me to believe that it may have been a zoo and not a circus. As a trapper, maybe Hans Brick supplied the animals for the zoo.
      I believe Circus Richter is a Hungarian Circus. If memory serves, members of the Richter Family appeared with the Ringling Brothers sponsored tour of the "Monte Carlo Circus Spectacular in 1979 and with Ringling Brothers Circus in 1980-81. The Richters presented two acts, an elephant specialty act and also performed a bareback horse riding act. As far as Circus Novacek, I have nothing. I have have not yet found confirming collateral evidence about the extraordinary exotic act with the rhino, tapir etc. - Richard Reynolds

Reply: 03 Oct 2007 - Re Hans Brick, reply to Richard Reynolds. Firstly I would point out that Hans Brick was born 4th November 1889 in Nurinberg Germany and died 22nd August 1972 aged 83yrs in Middlesex. His father was Italian and was killed by a tiger and the shock led to his mother who was of "Dutch origin" going into an early labour and she died in childbirth. Friends of his mother a Heindrick & Babette Neunzer looked after him until it was sorted as to what sould happen to the child. As his father before his death had made arrangements for a friend named Adler to bring the child up if anything was to happen to himself or the mother so he was put in his guardianship for which he spent the rest of his working life on circuses in Europe and travelled the world. He came to England in 1932 also started the zoo at Burnt Stubs Chessington in 1932/1934,he worked on all major Circuses in England Ireland & the channel isles until internment in 1939 on the Isle of Man. My mother & myself were liveing in "Wilson Zoo in Glasgow" until he was released from the Isle of man and he came to Glasgow where my younger brother and sister were born, thats where he met Eddie Campbell but left Wilsons Zoo in 1943. From there we went to different Circus's with his Lion Habibi, He trained all sorts of animals for the Tarzan films and other films he worked with Rosair's Circus,Pinders Circus, Trevor Bales Circus, Chipperfields, Robert Brothers, and did theatre's with his chimp George (Mainly the Empire Theatre's) He wrote the book "Jungle be gentle" 1960 and the American version named "Nature of the beast" was released in 1962 I have origanal copies of both books it is not an autobiography it is of what he knew about animal training. he retired in1956 after 67 years in circus but carried on working voluntary with animals whenever anyone asked him for advice.He was a very clever man. Clive Neunzer (Son)

Reply: 10 Dec 2007 - Dear Clive, I'm very interested in the man that raised your father, a Mr. Adler. I have for years now been researching this refound photo album belonging to acrobats on both sides of the atlantic ocean and one of the people that has never been resolved who it was was a miss Olly (?) Adler, photographed in 1929 in Atlantic city. It appeared to me it might have been the daughter of someone they knew. Artists concerned where originally from austria, living in Berlin and connected to the blumenfelds et al. Thanks, Natasha Gerson

Reply: 20 Sep 2007 - A "panther wagon" would likely have been a four-wheel cage wagon housing a panther. In concept, it was a simple box with barred sides to which the running gears were directly attached under the floor. It would have been constructed for overland passage, with carriage-like wheels [large diameter, narrow tread] and would have been pulled by two horses, less likely four. The sides would have had bars, the front and back constructed of wooden panels. The floor was fabricated with sills running the length of the body, the roof also constructed of wood, with ribs and boards, covered with painted canvas to make it water-repellent. Removable side boards might have covered the barred sides when in transit, though canvas covers may also have been used for the purpose. The wagon body might have been five to six feet wide, about as tall and perhaps eight to ten feet long. They probably lacked any ornamentation until a few years later.
      There are almost no circus cage wagon photographs before about 1880, but there are some of later vehicles in the 1880s and 1890s that were likely similar to those used in the 1860s. A reasonable likeness, though somewhat larger, is the working cage housing two lions and their keeper found on page 91 of Fox and Kelley, "The Great Circus Street Parade in Pictures." There are also engraved depictions of cage wagons in period newspaper advertisements and heralds.
      The name, "panther wagon," defined the contents and type of vehicle. Different animals have been identified by the name "panther." Perhaps Richard J. Reynolds III might render an offering as to the possibilities of such on an 1860s circus or menagerie? The traveling menagerie business peaked long before the Civil War and these traveling zoos became an adjunct of the tent circus. A few, by name, like the Van Amburgh & Co. Menagerie, continued to operate in the decades after the Civil War.
      You can read about the conduct of overland shows in Stuart Thayer's book "Traveling Showmen," which covers the period 1825-1860. Circus activity during the Civil War is covered in William L. Slout's volume "Clowns and Cannons."
      If you're transcribing a written entry, are you sure that the writing doesn't say "monitor wagon"? Fred Dahlinger

Reply: 23 Sep 2007 - Additional information. Miss Maud trapezist killed at L'Olympia de Paris in 1898 according to "La merveilleuse histoire du cirque" by Henri Thetard. I am trying to find Elizara Swift (message 1522) who I have discovered died in Paris about this time. Thank you. bernardgriffin@hotmail.co.uk

Reply: 16 Oct 2007 - I found on www.circusmuseum.nl/eng poster Tom Thump, le collibri de poche from Pickard museum Glasgow.poster friedlander no.4047 year 1907. H.Best-Otte

Reply: 06 Oct 2007 - Pat was a great circus advance man. I think I may have some photos, robert.perry3@bigpond.com

Reply: 23 Sep 2007 - D. McFarland - Stickney's 1869 circus, according to the 3/27/69 Clipper, had four, maybe five riders, two clowns, and a dog act, but no menagerie. Like many small outfits had no parade, they advertised "our rivals make processions, we give the show." The company collapsed at least twice during the season, once at Bridgeport, CT on July 9, reorganized August 7 in Paterson, NJ, only to fail again in late August. Stuart Thayer.

Reply: 07 Sep 2007 - It is possible that the Ringling could have done ok with a smaller tent? But, it would not have been the Greatest Show on Earth. There was more than one factor for closing the Show in Pittsburgh in 55. First we had a blow down; then they brought up a backup top from Sarasota; if I remember, it soon ripped. The show was having a lot of trouble from the Unions during that summer. Television was cutting into the attendance; as it did for the movies.(To compete with TV, the movies introduced "Panavision Cinemascope and other large screen pictures. ). In Sarasota, I believe there were tax issues among others. Sarasota no longer wanted the Circus in town. They introduced Zoning changes, making it hard for performers to set their riggings in their back yards. No campers or mobile homes in yards, no new trailers into some of the trailer parks that were used by performers, among other restrictions. Mainly; the show was broke!! I remember much of the equipment including many of the animals being auctioned off. Mr. Concello had difficulties with the city about his train cars on old 301, by the airport. It was just a bad time. Mr. Merle Evans was the only circus person,other than myself, who was at the dedication ceremony of a marker at the old winter quarter site. It was already a housing development by that time. Without a doubt, I don't believe there will ever be a circus like the Ringling Show was under the Big Top. How very sad. Ernyk@aol.com, Erny Karoly

Reply: 06 Sep 2007 - As for stories, a great book to read would be "Fun by the Ton" written by Eddie Allen and F. Beverly Kelley in 1941. Blanche was sold to the Kelly-Morris Circus in 1952 and remained with the Morris family until her death in 1965. The other four were sold to Paul Kelly who bought most of what was left of the Cole Bros. Circus. Little Babe died in 1978. I don't have any records of Nellie after 1961. Louie was sold to the Grant Park Zoo in Atlanta. Big Jennie died in 1972. Hope this helps. Bob Cline

Reply: 07 Sep 2007 - To Bob Cline, Thank you so much for responding so quickly to my inquiry (2058) regarding the elephants, Blanche, Nellie, Little Babe, Louie and Big Jennie. I have read the book “Fun by the Ton” and found it fascinating! This research project has taken me deeper and deeper into a life my father never talked about. I was even shocked to find that he went by the name Donald Roberts. Thank you again. Pamela Snyder, Chatsworth, CA. 4ever17@USA.net.

Reply: 28 Sep 2007 - There was never any elephant named "Louie" at the Atlanta Zoo, at least not by that name. There was however, one named "Lucy" later "Lula Belle" - always called the latter name at the zoo. She was an old female that Floyd King's so-called King Bros. Eastern unit left in Winder, GA in April 1956. King just abandoned the elephant and other animals - dromedary camel, water buffalo, highland cow, llamas (really guanacos, I think), and a zebu. His "fighting lion" was left in Alpharetta, GA. It too went to the Atlanta zoo. King just kept moving and abandoned two more elephants in Tennessee. They wound up at the Miller Bros. animal farm in Pigeon Forge, TN. The Atlanta zoo took in the Winder and Alapharetta animals until they could be re-claimed by King or whoever could prove rightful ownership. That never happened. King went into bankruptcy, and by the time the trustee would have gotten around to re-claiming the animals he had no money (given all the other claims against the estate) by which to repay the zoo for the cost of their feed and board. Back then the maintenance costs exceeded the market value of these old animals. So, Lucy and the other critters became zoo animals by way of abandonment. The Zoo never bought "Lucy a/k/a Lula Belle" from King, Kelly or anyone. If Lucy had a Paul Kelly connection it was likely because King leased Kelly's ex-Cole elephants in 1955 to augment his own group. King also got the right to use the Kelly owned Cole Bros title which included a bunch of old Cole paper which King strung up all along his route. That Floyd King was a piece of work. Lula Belle (nee Lucy) died at the Atlanta zoo on September 2, 1968 - Richard Reynolds

Reply: 24 Nov 2007 - Richard Reynolds: Thank you for the info regarding the elephant Louie, (Lucy/Lula Belle). It makes sense that if people changed their names, so would the elephants. I never understood why my father in his photo album said that Joe was "the only male in the herd." Thank you again for responding to my inquiry 2058 – Pam Snyder, Chatsworth, CA

Reply: 04 Sep 2007 - Hi, Have you tried contacting your local PBS station or affiliate? They may be able to help you. Good luck, Erny Karoly

Reply: 04 Sep 2007 - A copy of that TV documentry should be at the library at Circus World Museum in Baraboo, WI. At least it was there 22 years ago, because I sat down and watched it. If you are able to locate a copy, please let me know, Jim Cole, circus4youth@earthlink.net

Reply: 05 Sep 2007 - As I recall, this was one in an eight-part series in black-and-white that was produced in the early or mid-1960s when public broadcasting was still called educational television and was in its infancy. Thus, it predates PBS. In addition to the Beers-Barnes segment, I recall that one other part was on elephants. Yes, the series is at the Circus World Museum in Baraboo, WI, but they also have all the unused outtakes, a stack of 2000-foot reels at least two feet high! This series, and an NBC Project 20 documentary narrated by Emmett Kelly (avoid the abbreviated 20 minute commercial version) and written by Bill Ballantine, are the two outstanding television documentaries of the 1960s about the circus. I've heard about a 1959 program on the Cristiani family, Roll Out the Sky, but have never known if a copy still exists. - Dick Flint, Baltimore

Reply: 04 Sep 2007 - Check out the new CFA web site www.Circus4Youth.org. There you will find a feature article about the Flying Cavarettas. Two of the sister from that act got their start at the Youth Circus in St. Petersburg, FL. Jim Cole

Reply: 04 Sep 2007 - William A. Dyer was born in Cedarville, GA on September 23, 1876. He was only 45 years old when he passed away in Detroit, MI on April 25, 1921. He had been in ill health for about two years, but was able to carry on until his last month despite heart and kidney problems. His wife was with him at the end. Dyer had a carousel and a Whip booked onto the Con T. Kennedy Shows, a railroad carnival, in 1916. His experience likely dated to before that time, as the two rides represented several thousand dollars in invested capital. W. O. [also given as Alex] Brown and Dyer launched their own midway company on four railroad cars in 1917. It was said that Brown was a continuous foe of the "strong" game," meaning that he was against grift in midway games. By 1919 they had rapidly grown to 16 cars and by 1921 they were identified as a leading midway operation. If you want to pursue the history of the show, inquire with your local library about obtaining microfilm of the trade journals "Billboard" and "New York Clipper." They will contain periodic reports about the activities of Brown & Dyer. Fred Dahlinger

Reply: 05 Sep 2007 - I can scan and email both pages directly to the interested party if permitted. Robert Sabia, rfsabia@widomaker.com