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Message Archive: Messages 2851 - 2900


2900. Bernard's Elephants, 19 Apr 2009 - I am seeking information and photos of the elephants owned by Dr. Pierre A. Bernard. There were 4 elephants that were taken "on tour" and contracted out to various circus around the eastern part of the country. My Dad was the driver of the Elephant truck. I do have several photos of him and the animals. One of the head liners was Old Mom. She was purchased by Bernard when she was in her late 80's and she passed away about 4 years later. That was in 1934 I think. The three younger elephants were Baby Bood and Juno. At one time Bernard, who owned the Clarkstown Country Club in Nyack, NY had as many as nine elephants in his herd. By the time WW2 came around the elephant touring was finished and my dad went to work in a machine shop making gun parts. Any one have any information about Bernard and his elephants? Gentle505. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 21 Apr 2009 - Buckles Woodcock is the premier elephant historian in the country. He has a blog at http://bucklesw.blogspot.com. On March 4, 2009, he ran a piece of artwork of Dr. Pierre Bernard's elephants, this one being named Buddah (a Male Asian). I have found some more research that says he had Juno and Babe (Both female Asians). The Old Moms you speak of has been called Mama Mary. She did indeed die in Nyack, N.Y. on Nov. 9, 1933. Buddah, Juno, & Babe are all documented between 1933 and 1943 with Dr. Pierre Bernard. Unfortunately, I don't know any more about them as to where they came from or where they went after Mr. Bernard's days. I would love to find out more about the other elephants also. You state he had as many as 9 at one time. I was not aware he had that many. Bob Cline

    Reply: 27 Jul 2009 - I have some information on Dr. Bernard that you could probably find online, but the Nyack Public Library has extensive records in their historical section. He had as many as nine elephants at once, according to them. And there are some pictures of him riding the elephants and them taking a stroll through the woods. Cliff

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2899. Beatty-Cole, Orlando, 19 Apr 2009 - Hi, This morning at a flea market I purchased a poster for the Clyde Beatty - Cole Bros. Circus. An attached strip of paper at the bottom say, "Orlando, W. Colonial Blvd. and Ferguson, Auspices: Jaycees, November 26, 27, 28. The poster appears to be old. I've been searching the web but can't find a way to learn the year the circus was in Orlando on those dates. I run free train displays for children (I'll soon be running a circus display) and would like to date this poster before putting it up as a decoration. Any hint on how to find out this information would be helpful. Thanks, Lee Coleman. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 20 Apr 2009 - Beatty-Cole played Orlando Nov 26 thru 28, 1971. You left out a crucial clue by not giving us the weekdays of the engagement, which information surely appears on the date strip you mention. This date began on a Friday and November 26 was only on Friday about six of the many years the Beatty-Cole title was used. Ole Whitey

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2898. RBBB articles, 19 Apr 2009 - There are a lot of articles on RBBB in the nytimes.com including today’s [Apr 18] “Send in The Clowns, Coney Island-Style” by Glenn Collins. RG. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2897. Tim Holst, 18 Apr 2009 - Dear friends, Tim Holst's family and Feld Entertainment have put an email adress for condoleances, encouragements and memories: TimHolstmemories@feldinc.com. Raffaele. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2896. Hanneford family, Sells-Floto, 18 Apr 2009 - Hello, I just bought a Hanneford family in Sells Floto circus in New York hippodrome with "Prince of Wales applauding the Prince of Clowns." Please, when the Hanneford family was in Sells Floto circus and when is this beautiful poster? I think in 1920? Thank you for your answer. Best regards, Gérard. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2895. Tim Holst, 17 Apr 2009 - If you don't know already, the sad new is that Tim Holst, artistic vice president of Ringling Bros. Barnum and Bailey, passed away yesterday. Raffaele. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2894. Henry Franz, 17 Apr 2009 - Hello, I am the other grand daughter of Henry Charles Franz (Cheryl Stietenroth is my sister). First, I want to set the record straight on my grandmother (referring to entry on February 25, 2004). My grandmother's maiden name WAS Weiseman. Her full name was Adele Irene Weiseman. My mother is Violet Harriet Franz (Stietenroth). Still living; 87 years old and going strong!
    Second is some additional info on Henry Franz: He was a highly decorated veteran of WWI (Silver Star, Purple Heart, etc.). He was gassed twice with mustard gas while repairing telegraph lines. He passed his gas mask to his partner (who's mask was lost) during the gas attacks.
    Third: Many years following his death, my mother loaned her father's props, pictures, and war decorations to the circus museum in Sarasota, Florida. Unfortunately, all was lost when the museum was sold. We had no notification of the sale and had no way to recover our family's historical items. If anyone has any info on what may have happened to these items, please contact me to let me know. leanna. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 23 Apr 2009 - Leanna: The circus museum that you are talking about is most likely the Circus Hall of Fame, which was closed and then sold to a non-profit corporation, which moved all of the contents to Peru, Indiana at the Winter Quarters of the original Hagenbeck-Wallace Circus several years ago. You should contact their Director there and relate your story. As far as museum artifacts go, each state has laws regarding “loaned” items which can vary considerably. Some of these laws also relate to legal issues of “abandoned property”, so you will have to check the laws of both Florida where the Circus Hall of Fame was originally located, as well as the laws of Indiana, where the Circus Hall of Fame now exists. You then should check all of your family documents to find out if you have any kind of loan documents from the museum that were given to your mother. If not, then you will have to build a case with documentation that proves that the items in question were legally owned by your mother, the loaner, at the time of the loan, and that you are the legal heir to the items. Family photographs of your grandfather or documentation with descriptions of the items will certainly help, but may not hold up in court. There are many legal issues involved in this situation, which range from questions of ownership to the sale of ill-gotten goods. Before the sale, the original owners of the Circus Hall of Fame, should have made a good faith effort to contact owners of loaned items, which they may have done according to the laws of that time. Also, the current non-profit owners made a good faith effort to purchase the museum’s contents legally, so they may well have a claim too. Then, unfortunately, there may be the issue of whether the items remained in the museum collection or were removed for whatever reason, including possible sale to facilitate an attempt to keep the original museum open. There is also the issue of the time that has passed since the original sale and transfer of the goods with the museum; because so many years have passed, the legality of “statute of limitations” may also come into play. Your best bet is to contact the Director as I stated above and see if a satisfactory deal can be worked out if the current museum even has the items still in their current collection. Unfortunately, if you have enough proof and want to go through the courts, you are going to be talking about a major expense in attorney’s fees and court costs, not to mention the available laws that have since been passed. Here in Minnesota, the State Legislature passed sweeping legislation to protect the interests of museums concerning items that have been left in collections for years, decades and centuries. That legislation says that any item left in the possession of a museum for longer than 7 years with no inquiries from original owners or heirs of original owners, automatically becomes the property of the museum. Period. Since this law was passed, many other states have adopted this same law or ones similar to it. In your case, your claim or your mother’s claim to the property in question may be a moot point. You also might consider what is in the best interest of the memory of your grandfather and his circus career. Rather than keeping mementos in some drawer at home, many people look to museums to provide the best possible housing and care for the items, as well as allowing them to remain available to researchers and members of the public to enjoy the items and keep the legacy of their loved one alive. This is the underlying mission of most, if not all museums. Just something to think about as you proceed down your path! Neil C. Cockerline

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2893. William Wrest, 17 Apr 2009 - We understand that our Uncle was an employee of a circus and that its home base was California. We also understand that he trained some of the high wire/rope acts. Any information that you can furnish us will be appreciated. His name was Will or William Wrest and was from Texas county Missouri and he died in 1963. nabchurch. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2892. Wirth's Circus, bears, 14 Apr 2009 - I am trying to find information about a bear-wrestling act that toured with Wirth's Circus in Australia in the late 1800s. There is a local story near Landsborough in Queensland of a local man who won £10 by beating the bear in a wrestling match when Wirth's circus visited the town. I am seeking any other information. In particular, I would like to find out the name of the act. Could it have been the Pallenbergs? Any help would be appreciated. cloudstreet. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 15 Apr 2009 - Hello, Wirth's Circus were absent from Australia on a World tour in the period from December 1893, returning in August 1900. The most likely possibility is the Souquet Brothers who toured Australia and New Zealand between 1889 and 1900 and occasionally offered a Ten Pound prize for wrestling a bear. In 1889 Pouech and Company, Bear Hunters and Tamers appeared in Australia, also listing wrestling bears. However they sound suspiciously like the Souquet Brothers using another name. Woodyear's Circus in 1886 also had a wrestling bear in their lineup. The Pallenberg Bears were with Wirths around 1927/28. Regards, John Sullivan.

    Reply: 16 Apr 2009 - No way did Wirth's ever have boxing Bears in fact they never even had a boxing Kangaroo. The Pallenbergs were with Wirth's in 1927/8 & in the 1950s. I have just been on the phone with Mr Jim Fogarty who has wrote 2 books on Wirths and he confirmed it with me. Robert Perry, Australia

    Reply: 23 Apr 2009 - Could they have had an act that wrestled bears, rather than boxing. My other source of information is sure it was Wirth's. Cloudstreet.

    Reply: 19 Aug 2009 - Hello,Out of the blue I have just come across some advertisements that indeed advertise a "wrestling bear" with Wirth's Circus. The time and prize money is a little different to your info. with the prize money being 5 Pounds, and the date being January 31 1903. The bear trainer is Herr Paul. I would suggest you check the old newspapers dated 1903 at your local library. My sighting is in Adelaide. John Sullivan

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2891. Three Cosmos, trapeze, 14 Apr 2009 - Could you tell me what happened to the Three World Renouned Cosmos Viennese Trapeze Artists who performed in the Town Hall in Vienna on 15/31963! My partner Donald Jolly is trying to trace them! One of The Three Cosmos was a woman. Many Thanks! Sallie Brewis. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2890. Beatty-Sparks wagons, 11 Apr 2009 - I just finished watching Ring of Fear again and I know Clyde Beatty Circus bought the closed Sparks Circus new all steel wagons. Any one have any idea what was paid for those sparks wagons? Did the Beatty show use them starting in 1948? Also what happened to the old Beckman and Gerrity Carnival wagons they used in 1946 and they were supposed to have lots of trouble with them in one day moves.
    In talking to Jack Painter the other day as he saw the new Cole performance we talked about these Beatty wagons and Jack said that Hank Frazier asked Clyde Beatty about these and Beatty told them in 1950 they never had any of those carnival wagons. Well we all know they did use them and maybe Clyde was ashamed of them ad they looked very different and I would say little was done to them before starting the new 1946 season. Any answers would be greatly appreciated from you CHS members and you learned ones with the answers. Thanks so much, Harry Kingston-CHS member. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2889. Bill Ballantine & Flying Alexanders, 11 Apr 2009 - My local auction house is selling an illustration by Bill Ballantine next week. The subject matter is The Flying Alexanders. Does anyone recognize the picture? It looks like it was made to be published in a magazine article or a book. I've tried researching Bill Ballantine's artwork. None has ever sold at auction before. It looks like nearly every other piece is with the family, or in the Ringling Museum. Here's a link to the picture. I think it's a wonderful piece of Circus History and I'm sure everyone will enjoy seeing it. www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6331900. Thank You, Ed Alcorn, Hudson, Florida. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 01 May 2009 - Hello Ed: I was the successful bidder on that drawing/painting and am currently waiting to receive it. Having spent the bulk of my professional career as a fine arts conservator, I collect fine art with the circus as subject matter. Most of the works produced by Mr. Ballantine, to my knowledge, were usually given as gifts to friends and/or to the performers who appeared in them. Mr. Ballantine did not produce works for gallery exhibitions and sale that I know of. The majority of his works were “commercial” in nature, used for reproduction in magazines or other publications or for his own books that he wrote. His work therefore would be considered “illustration” art, which has just really become a commodity in the art market within the last decade or so. His work was also published in some RBBB programs over the years and although millions were printed, the circus going public did not necessarily reflect the art market and I doubt except for a few circus fans, the millions of people who saw the drawings in the programs probably never associated them with a specific artist. Outside of the circus and fans, Bill Ballantine is virtually unknown in the fine art world. There are probably few if any auction records for his work, because when they are offered for sale, usually through estates, they never end up at the large auction houses such as Christie’s, Sotheby’s, etc., which are the auction houses that are used in fine arts auction records. It is unclear where this particular drawing came from. I surmised that it possibly came from the estate of Rose Alexander, Faye’s wife and fellow trapeze flyer, who passed away this year, but just recently a friend who knew her very well said that she owned a much larger sized version, which admittedly seems a bit unlikely to me. Also in the lot were a pair of portraits of Faye and Rosie, which were described to me by the auction house as “posters,” which I’m not exactly sure what they meant by this. Perhaps they are reproductions of original drawings (they look like pastel drawings), but it seems unlikely that they would have been produced as a series of photo-reproduced prints, due to the lack of a viable market for their sale, but that is yet to be determined. Maybe they are original drawings, but the shipping agent informed me that the portraits are water damaged and stuck to the glass in the frame, so until I see them, it’s impossible to determine exactly what these two additional images are. Interestingly, this Ballantine drawing will also end up in the Ringling Museum in Sarasota, as that is where my circus collection will go when I die or decide to deaccession items before I pass. Neil Cockerline

    Reply: 04 May 2009 - Bill and I were friends since working together at Clown College. He was a master in pen and ink with clean sharp lines that captured the moment and the personality of the subject. I remember seeing a pen and ink of Fay that was done when they were both on Ringling. He illustrated his own books ane numerous magazine articles, like those in the old True magazine with those wonderful drawings. He did a colored pen and ink of our act and it along with some other drawings he gave me remain treasures from a good friend and a talented writer and illustrator. Robert Momyer

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2888. Elephant Hattie, 11 Apr 2009 - Does anybody have a photo of Hattie, the elephant owned by Hawthorne? Thanks. Laura. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2887. Buffalo Bill Wild West equipment colors, 10 Apr 2009 - Does anyone know the colors used on the equipment for the US version of the Buffalo Bill Wild West in the 1900's? Colors of the equipment and colors of the lettering for the coaches, flat cars, stock cars and wagons? Cyril Durrenberger. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 11 Apr 2009 - Buffalo Bill's Wild West was in Europe 1903-1906, toured the US 1907-1908 under the same title, and then traveled between 1909 and closure in 1913 as Buffalo Bill's Wild West and Pawnee Bill's Great Far East. Which specific operation is the one of interest to you? Despite the world-wide fame of the namesake star, photographic coverage of the train, in particular, is quite limited. You don't mention the advertising cars; are they not of interest? Fred Dahlinger

    Reply: 12 Apr 2009 - Thanks for the response. I would be interested in the colors from 1900 to 1902 in the US and the colors from 1907-1908 and also from 1909 to 1913 as the combined show. There are some photos of some of the advertising cars. At present am more interested in the colors used on the other rail cars and the wagons. Cyril Durrenberger

    Reply: 13 Apr 2009 - Unfortunately, the BBWW and subsequent Two Bills decorative scheme information is sketchy and incomplete. Unlike the abundance of documentation for most system railroad rolling stock, show train decorative knowledge is often quite sparse, or entirely unknown.
        Circa 1900-1902 BBWW train images are contained in “Show Trains of the 20th Century,” pages 7-13, with another couple published in “Cosmopolitan” magazine of June 1900, pages 120 and 125. The principal body area of the stocks and flats were painted white or perhaps a light yellow, with dark lettering and a medium drop shade. The same lettering style can be seen on both the stocks and the flats. The flat car end sills, stake pockets and decking visible on the side were painted a dark color. The same technique does not appear to have been applied to the stocks, with the sides and ends the same color. It is not known if changes were made year to year. One account states that the Buffalo Bill train had been painted white with black lettering before going to Europe in 1903. Black was a highly unusual color to apply to show cars, except perhaps to the running gear. It may be relevant that a photo of the flats utilized in Europe records a decorative scheme that appears to be the same as used on the domestic train.   There are no known photos of the 1907-1908 BBWW train, or paint data.   For 1909, the train colors were reportedly changed to crimson and yellow, but it’s not clarified how they were utilized. The advertising cars were reported as being painted green, orange and pink. “Pawnee Bill’s Far East” was above the windows while “Buffalo Bill’s Wild West” was below them, all done in gold. A photo of one of the Two Bills advertising cars is in “Show Trains,” page 25. The only Two Bills-era photos of stocks and flats are in “Show Trains,” pages 26 and 27. These represent factory-applied base coats and not necessarily the finish paint.   The BBWW advertising car images with which you’re familiar are generally not dated in their source documents. You can see relevant images in the above mentioned book, wherein they are given years. Further definition is provided in “Bandwagon,” Nov-Dec 2005, pages 27-33. Fred Dahlinger

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2886. Chief Thunderface, 08 Apr 2009 - Please Help, I am trying to track down as much information on Chief Thunderface. I recently found out I am related to him. Thank You, Chris Holguin. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 31 May 2009 - My name is Joseph Holguin Rivere, Chief Mike Thunderface was my uncle and Chief Joseph Thunderface was his son and also my cousin who died in 1930's. Chief Joseph Thunderface was a developed into a light weight champion boxer in the country Burma which is now Myanmar that is next to Thailand. They belonged to a band of mission Indians from California. Chief Joseph SR. father of Chief Mike Thunderface joined AL G. Barnes circus in the 1920's and the family was performers, they performed as Cowboys, Mexicans and a Indians in the wild west circus. Any questions my email is joerivere@yahoo.com.

    Reply: 09 Apr 2009 - Did you see the information on Chief Thunderface in the archives of this message board? See message No. 281., (www.circushistory.org/Query/Query04e.htm, scroll down). J. Griffin

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2885. Marietta, GA, 08 Apr 2009 - I am writing a neighborhood history and learned that our subdivision in Marietta, GA was built in 1924 next to a makeshift park called Joyland. Until WWII it was the site of a mostly African-American ball field and was the site for visiting circuses. After the war it was cleared and became the site of a public housing project. Does anyone have information or pictures of a circus at this site? Jim Morris. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2884. Volney Phifer, lion Leo, 07 Apr 2009 - Does anyone know how Volney Phifer trained Leo, the lion of the MGM, to roar everytime he wanted? Thanks for any tip about it. abcruzat. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2883. John Jessick, 07 Apr 2009 - Hi: I was interested in any articles and photo's of John Jessick who was an acrobat and did a 1 finger stand. Does any exist? Thanks, Lou. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 17 Apr 2009 - One foto and one poster by artists (sorry not Jessick) who perform this stunt on www.circusmuseum.nl/eng. Search with the word “vinger”. Herman Voogd

    Reply: 25 June 2009 - Hi, Johny Jessick was my first cousin. My mother and his were sisters. He came from Youngstown Ohio, and worked with many circuses, including Ringling brothers. He was also premiered on the Ed sullivan show, I believe in the 1950's or 60's. He was mostly famous for his one finger stand, and also walking up and down a flight of stairs on his head, only using leg kicks to propel himself. When I was a kid, I spent summers with John, and Betty at their Youngstown residence, and loved to play on their trapeze. John died I believe in the late 70's or early 80's. He last was working as a manager of the John Strong circus in Thousand Oaks CA. I believe John died sometime in the early 80's. At our family reunions John was always the hit of the affair with his antics. I may be able to find some photograph of him, But I would have to contact relatives back in Ohio. Thank you for bringing back such great memories. Terry Bertolne

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2882. Gunther Gebel-Williams, sculpture, 05 Apr 2009 - Greetings! In the 1980's, while Gunther Gebel-Williams was ruling the circus world, a life size wax sculpture of him was inducted into the Movieland Wax Museum in Buena Park, Ca. I have a photo of him standing next to the wax figure. Since the museum sold and all the items auctioned off, I have been looking for that wax figure (or the head). I have followed most of the figures to South Korea and San Francisco but Gunther was not among them. Nor was his name on the auction list. I hope he is still out there somewhere. I know this is an odd request, but if anyone finds him, please let me know! Gunther fan in Los Angeles. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 26 Apr 2009 - I'm looking for it too. The last time I saw it was at the Hollywood Wax museum in 1994. The plaque said that it was donated for his retirement. He was kneeling next to a tiger and the costume was actually one of Gunthers. Hollywood wax museum says they don't know where it went. Steve.

    Reply: 07 May 2009 - Dear Gunther fan. I recently ran into in my research a tableau of the Last supper from that collection. It was auctioned off when the joint closed. You might want to check into the auction house that offered it. I got the impression that this was not the only item that was dispersed in this manner. Good hunting! I found the info under "wax last suppers" while preparing a sermon. Just FYI. R.T., Circus Historical Society Member

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2881. Note Allison, Charlotte Saunders, 05 Apr 2009 - I am seeking information on Note Allison, a musician, and Charlotte Saunders (or Allison-they may have married), a bare-back rider. At one time they were with the John Robinson's Circus in 1891-92, but may have been with others. Vern Pace. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2880. Ringling Bros. fire, 1930s, 04 Apr 2009 - I recall attending the Ringling Bros. Circus in the late 1930's in Washington, Dc. when a fire broke out but of course not as devastating as the Hartford Fire. I am trying to get more info. on this occurrence. Please email the facts. Thank You, Penny, pryno2@charter.net. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 14 Apr 2009 - RBBB settled into a mid-May routine for playing Washington, D. C., between 1936 and 1939. All of the dates were bracketed between May 15 and May 19. A quick way to ascertain the most important events during the late 1930s is to check Joseph T. Bradbury's series on the annual RBBB tours between 1933 and 1956. These were published in "White Tops," journal of the Circus Fans Association. A White Tops article index is on this website, under the Publications button on the home page. In checking those pieces, I found no reference to a fire between 1932 and 1941. The show was hit with a bad storm in 1936, [May 18-19], with damage to the big top. Could that have been the event that you recall? In 1937 [May 17-19], Angela Antelek, a member of the Antelek troupe, fell. Bradbury's series was based in large part on news reported in "Billboard" magazine. Anything as unusual as a fire would likely have been recorded. By the late 1930s the clown gag "fire house" gag was being presented. Is it possible that it has become part of your memory of a fire at the circus?
        To pursue this further, you might try soliciting the assistance or your local librarian in obtaining access to back issues of Washington, D. C. newspapers, either by digitized files on a website or through borrowed microfilm. Fred Dahlinger

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2879. Rapid 4, 01 Apr 2009 - I have just come across a set of photos showing my grandfather, Basil Mordaunt Baker, with 3 other acrobats called the Rapid 4. Basil was born in Birmingham UK and set up the Troupe in early 1920’s. The only info I have been given about his career is that they played in theatres, circuses and even in films. I was told that they were part of the cast in the 1950 hit ‘The Flame and the Arrow’ starring Burt Lancaster and Nick Cravat, who were both top acrobats. I would be very grateful if you could pass on any photos, stories or general information you may have about the troupe. Thanx, Griff. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 04 Dec 2009 - Greetings. I have quite a lot of information about Basil Mordaunt Baker. You could contact me at sisterruth@mindspring.com. Regards, Ruth

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2878. Cole Bros., 31 Mar 2009 - I see that apparently you received my informtion a year or so ago concerning a probable conversation I had with Nellie the tattooed woman. [message 2273] We had discussed a famous sword-swallower (Frances also known as Francis) whom we both knew. My chat was (and now impossible to duplicate) at the Bloomsburg, PA fair where she was in the freak show tent. - Wm. E. Dennis, Stroudsburg, PA. - I also was a friend of numbers of people (truly) in the re-formed (prior to John Pugh) Cole Brothers. I did not know the group from Ringling who left and began it anew in their time, but each elephant became a knowing, close friend of mine. It was a great sight to see the ten or more perform! Of course their handlers may both be deceased by now. I know that the younger Logan died after leaving the show when his Dad was no longer there. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2877. Harry Gurr, man-fish, 30 Mar 2009 - I am looking for any information on Harry Gurr "The Man Fish" who came to the United States in 1839 with Hanlon Brothers. I understand that the also did trapeze and that his wife came with him and she did trapeze also. I am trying to find out her name. She died in Battle Creek, Mi in 1875 at the age of 25. He remarried a woman who was also a trapeze artist. In paperwork they say that she was the first American woman trapeze artist - I also would like her name. I know that she died in 1919 in Tecumseh, Mi. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Lt. Harry Davis. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 01 Apr 2009 - [Sender's revised message] I have been working on my husband's family background. In doing so I have found that his great-grandfather is Harry Gurr known as the "Man Fish". I would like to know more info on his wife. I have found that his first wife came with him from England in 1867 with the Hanlon Bros. He was with Barnum & Bailey at one time, Joel E. Warner's Great Pacific Menagerie and Circus 1871-73, W.W. Cole's, 1874. It said his wife, Mlle. Bastian, female gymnast and trapeze artist traveled with him performing. She died in 1875 in Battle Creek, Michigan. He remarried later to another woman who was also a circus performer. I read that she was the first American woman trapeze artist, but it does not give her name. Can you tell me who she was? She died in Tecumseh, Michigan in 1919 and Harry died in Tecumseh, Michigan in 1935 at the age of 96. Any info that you could give me would be very much appreciated so that we can the information straight. Lt. Harry Davis

    Reply: 01 Apr 2009 - I have some information on Harry Gurr, but have not been able to discover the name of his second wife. Mlle. Bastian's name may have been Marie Bastian. Since you have his second wife's death place and year, you could send for her death record. And possibly check if she was buried in Tecumseh. Judy Griffin

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2876. Philip Douglas McDonald, Ringmaster, 30 Mar 2009 - I met Phil in San Jose Ca. In mid-1966. Because of his work we saw little of each other, but he was a good pal. Apparently there is a book of media clippings about him in the National Library of Australia. I didn't know that he was so appreciated for his work, Phil was modest. When did he pass away? Tony in. S. F. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2875. Photo identification, 30 Mar 2009 - Yesterday (26th March 2009) I was lucky enough to buy at auction a cheroot holder with a carving of a couple of men who appear to have performed in a circus. On the cheroot holder is a faithful depiction of the 2 men looking identical to the 2 in the old photo that came with it together with a construction of what looks like high wire apparatus. The cheroot and the photo were together with another cheroot holder under a glass dome and on the front of the dome is a small silver coloured plaque titled T. Walsham, August 26th 1862. I have no idea if this dome actually belongs to the cheroot holder so the name, T. Walsham, may be a red herring and the domed case may have been a simple way of presenting the items by the last owner. What I am wondering is can any of your members identify the 2 men? I understand that I cannot attach a photo but if anyone would like to see it perhaps you could email back and I will forward one to you personally. The photo is on thick card and is in sepia with a black edge. One man is knock kneed and pigeon-toed wearing very frilly knickers and a V-necked frilly sleevleless top. His legs and arms are clothed in tight fitting white material and his shoes are white ballet type with large flowers adorning. He is bald headed. The other man has dark tights and top tunic with less frilly knickers and a matching yoke top. He is dark haired with a moustache, taller than the other man and quite handsome. The background appears to be a studio with screen depicting a classical garden with house. On the floor between them is a conical white hat which is also carved in the meerschaum cheroot holder. My interest is purely in pipes and other smoking memorabilia so the field of the circus is something entirely new to me (though I have visited Ringlings museum in Sarasota which I found fascinating). I am in England and this was bought over here so the men depicted may be unknown to you but I would be happy to hear from any of your members if they have any leads or suggestions. I could also send you a photo of the cheroot holder if this is of interest. Many thanks in anticipation of your help in this matter. Yours faithfully, (Mrs) Kath Adams, KathBertAdams@hotmail.com. [Photo appears to be a clown and, possibly, an acrobat or other performer - webmaster]. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2874. Roman Protske, seeking information, 28 Mar 2009 - Roman Protske was an animal trainer, I believe born in Austria in the late 1800's. Came to the USA some time in the era of WW1? He had a Tiger act that traveled a good part of the eastern USA. I know he worked with my father, (a driver for Bernard's Elephants) in the 1930. I have two photos of the Captain. I am seeking further information about Protske. I know he wrote a book, title escapes me, but the book is very general in nature an provides very little about the man. Anyone remember Capt.Roman Protske? Gentle505 at aol.com. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 05 Apr 2009 - The correct spelling is Proske, without the "t." If you Google the name "Roman Proske" you will receive some basic hits. You might also look at Joanne Joys' book on wild animal trainers, also Fred Pfening's article about the same topic in a back issue of the "Bandwagon." It appears that a good bit of his later activity was outside formal circus organizations, with animal parks, Atlantic City and such. Film/video coverage can be found in one Coney Island video.
        His birth and death are given in the Social Security Death Index as September 21, 1898, and July 1972 in Dade County, Florida. Depending upon the reference, it appears that he entered the ring circa 1913-1915. A Ferdinand Proske was injured by a tiger at the York, PA fair in October 1933, and that may have been the same individual, or perhaps a relation or mistake in reporting. The event seems to play into later accounts of a disagreement with a one-time partner named Lillian Sterpelow. He is noted as being with a Shrine Circus at Albany, NY in March 1934, and at the Highland Park Zoo, Pittsburgh, PA in 1935, earliest mentions in newspaperarchive.com. There are many later listings. Fred Dahlinger

    Reply: 10 Apr 2009 - Thanks for the correction Fred. I did find his obit in the NYT as July 4, 1972. According to the obit he did work for Ringling Brothers and Frank Buck. I also tracked down a copy of his autobiography "My Turn Next." Only $80 on Amazon. Thanks for the update. I did find he came to the USA in 1933, again from the obit. I can now go back and start reading the daily papers in Nyack, NY to find out about a tiger that got loose from his training camp in Rockland Lake, NY. Must have made the papers. Thanks. Any other info on Roman Proske would be apprecitated..

    Reply: 05 June 2009 - Here are some articles and one with quotes from him. He also acted as an animal dealer and sold a Sumatran tiger to the Crandon Park Zoo in 1953. Rachel
        http://www.ohio.com/lifestyle/history/8782122.html

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=950&dat=19490311
    &id=lK4LAAAAIBAJ&sjid=f1UDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5987,5572044

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2873. Barnum's employees, 27 Mar 2009 - How can I find out who was employed by Barnum during 1887 to 1889? Sheila. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 29 Mar 2009 - Some circuses published an annual "route book." The best of them were illustrated and included: a roster of show employees; the show's big top program; topical articles; advertisements; a daily diary; the season's route; routes from past years; and sometimes other features. Barnum & London issued a route book in 1887 and Barnum & Bailey did so in 1888 and 1889. Within their pages is where you will find the largest listing of Barnum show employees in those three seasons, to the extent that they were printed. The "New York Clipper" may also have published extended reviews or news items that list some performers, side show personalities, advance car crews, top management and so on, but the route book listings will typically be more comprehensive, if they exist. You can access route books in selected public collections. If you post contact your contact information, a private owner may respond to your specific request for assistance. If you are searching for a specific individual, whose name is known to you, there are other ways to locate their presence. Fred Dahlinger

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2872. J T Daley photo card, 25 Mar 2009 - J T Daley performed with a circus in the 1870's. I have a picture of his circus card with his photograph on it. He is standing with hands on hips and his juggling clubs are visible to his left. I'm trying to identify which circus would have printed such cards. James T Daley landed in Utah in 1878. He was from the Boston area originally where I'm guessing he joined a circus about 1875/1876 and came west via train with a traveling show. I'd like to find out which circus would have been large enough of a show to be able to afford to print photo cards for individual acts. Any information would be greatly appreciated. I can send a color scan of the card for further examination if needed. Thank you, Todd. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 27 Mar 2009 - A multitude of performers, actors, side show personalities and others in "show business" all arranged for the making of photographic reproductions portraying them in static poses that often exemplified their role before the public. They could sell them as souvenirs, thereby supplementing their income, or give them away to build their audience of "fans." You might think of them somewhat as collectible sports cards in our own time. They may also have been used to promote bookings, much as the standard 8 x 10 glossy black and white prints did several decades ago, or VHS, DVD and on-line video clips do in recent and present times.
        There were several photographers who specialized in such work and advertised in journals catering to the trade, such as the "New York Clipper." They start to appear in carte de visite form and carry on through several variations towards the turn of the century. The identity and the size of the circus wasn't a factor in the production and sale of such photographs.
        Slout's book "Olympians of the Sawdust Circle," available on this website, doesn't list Daley. He may have appeared under a different name on traveling shows, or his presence may not be recorded in the documentation that has been preserved or was accessible to Slout. Daley may have confined his bookings to the stage, appearing in variety shows and other such venues. It's also possible that he was involved in physical culture activity, such as the Turners. It is sometimes not readily possible to discern whether the wardrobe being worn was for the circus or other stage activity.
        The name didn't come up in Google. You might try searching digitized newspaper databases for his name, in the event his name appeared in published billings. Another possibility would be to check census records, in the event that he may have been enrolled at some time. If the photograph bears the identity of the photographer, that might be another way to initiate a search; the individual portrayed likely occupied a place in the studio at one time and that could also be a means to initiate a search.
        Both the famous and the forgotten peer at us from the past in these images. They were widely collected and come on the market with some frequency today. Special albums to hold various formats were manufactured and sold. We would not know what many 19th century show personalities looked like were it not for these images. Fred Dahlinger

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2871. High wire act, 1900, 25 Mar 2009 - I am interested in knowing more about the theater and the high wire act my grandfather (1875-1960) described in a letter he wrote dated February 4, 1900 postmarked San Francisco. Here is what his letter said:
    I was to the Orpheum theatre last night with my Aunt and cousin Harry and will try to tell you something of what I saw and enjoyed. In the first place the room seats 2900 people so you can form some idea of the size. The first was a performance on the tight invisible wire about 6 feet from the floor. A man carried another man standing on his shoulders with a woman standing on the top man¹s shoulders across the wire and then a chair and table was placed on the wire and the woman jumped over them and alighted on the wire on the other side and then she danced from one end of the wire to the other. Next, came a performance on the ladder. A ladder was placed perpendicularly on a platform 4 ft-square and two men climbed to the top and one stood on the top while the other climbed to his shoulders and stood up. They were then handed mandolins and they then played a tune while balancing the ladder and then climbed down.
    The prettiest part was a woman dressed in some kind of very light goods that reflected like fire when the different kinds of lights were turned on her and her performance was just grand. I wish you could have seen her 'tis something you would never forget. - Thank you, Rebecca. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2870. Kookoolub, 24 Mar 2009 - I'm a writer and member of the Gollmar Moeller Ringling tent in Baraboo. I read of the Kookoolub club, an offshoot of the national Fans, meeting in Baraboo in 1933. I'd like more information on this Kookoolub group over the years. Thank you. Bob. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 27 Mar 2009 - Bob, your best resource will be the back issues of the CFA journal "White Tops," which contain convention reports and coverage of related activity. There is also a box of CFA-related materials that might contain some specific references to the topic. Any printed convention programs might provide insight. These are accessible in the CWM library. I would also recommend looking into the vertical file on the CFA, entries on the association in collections like Chindahl and Parkinson, etc. Though I'm not sure because I haven't seen your original reference, I think you meant Koo Koo Klub. The three initials might somehow be aligned with writer Karl Kae Knecht of Evansville, IN and some of his activities. It ultimately became a sort of variety show presentation at latter day CFA conventions. There are local CFA members in Baraboo of long standing that can provide you with recollections of their experiences at those events. Fred Dahlinger

    Reply: 28 Mar 2009 - Hello Bob: The Koo Koo Klub was originally an amateur endeavor where CFA Members could exhibit their skills; basically anything from singing to comedy to magic, etc. In some cases Fans might even “burlesque” favorite performers or acts. The key, though, was the focus on “amateur” although some Fans probably could have worked professionally in some cases. Older conventions for the most part had a single circus and single circus performance as the focus, so to fill out the convention program, other amusements were necessary. By the 1970s, though, convention programs began filling up with more programming than the 3 or 4 days could hold, so something had to go, thus the demise of the Koo Koo Klub. Also, the CFA Membership had started to age, so there were fewer folks that were willing to perform. Into the 1980s and 90s, Convention Committees started adding extra circuses, performances by circus schools, etc., so that some Fans complained there was too much to do and not enough time for jackpotting and socializing. I recall as Convention Co-chair in 1997 in San Francisco, the Convention Circus was Carson and Barnes for a matinee performance, but then we had an evening at the San Francisco School of Circus Arts that featured an entire performance with special guests Tito and Ritchie Gaona on the School’s trapeze rig, plus another evening was an added optional trip to see Cirque du Soleil’s Quidam and then at the Banquet, we had a number of local professional circus acts that performed. This year at the CFA Convention in Las Vegas, the first night is a huge party with many invited circus personalities and a juggling performance by the legendary Russian performer Gregory Popovich, plus speakers Terry Cavaretta and Mike Hartzell; the second night is an optional trip to see Cirque du Soleil’s Mystere, the third night is the banquet; and the fourth and final night is the Convention Circus, which is the New RBBB Red Unit. In between are all sorts of presentations by circus personalities including Jeanette Williams, Ree Shweizer, Jan Biggerstaff, Wally Eastwood, Gil Miller, Barbara Warkmeister, Ron Gill, and a host of others, plus a special luncheon in honor of Siegfried & Roy who will be in attendance and share some insights into their illustrious careers. So you can see, in today’s conventions, there is little room or need for the Koo Koo Klub. Neil C. Cockerline

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2869. Stella Morrisini, 23 Mar 2009 - I am looking for Stella H. (Stephens) Morrisini, believed to be born in Swansea, Wales, came to America in late 1800's, with sister Minnie A. Minnie A. married Charles Gilbert Lewis, pronounced Louie. Minnie lived in Brooklyn, NY. In the early 1900's Stella was in a circus dog & pony act, in Connecticut and also in many countries in Europe, Amsterdam, Brussles, etc. She was with husband Will, believed to be from Germany. Possibly the Cinisellis circus, but I don't know for sure. Thanks, Janie. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2868. William Hayer, Starless Night, 23 Mar 2009 - Hi, I am looking for any information on either Captain William Hayer and/or his horse Starless Night. I was born in Sarasota, Florida and my grandmother managed to get me one riding lesson with Captain Hayer, I think it was on Starless Night sometime around the year of 1959-1961. This is a question of personal cuirosity. Thank you. Kathryn, Carlisle, MA. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 24 Mar 2009 - Dear Katherine: Captain William Hayer was from Holland. He was a world renown dressage rider and trainer. He had a riding stable on what I believe was Orient Ave.? It is now part of Beneva Rd. It was just down the street from Ringling Winter Quarters. He has a daughter Isabelle and a son named Billy. I'm not sure if you got to ride on Starless Night, although it is possible. As a young boy age 12, I used to help out at the Riding School. I used to saddle the horses, feed, water, lead the trail rides and cooled down the horses. My family were Jockey Riders (Bare Back Riders ) and we worked with Captain Hayer many years ago in Germany. Captain Hayer was a class act and we don't see his caliber of horse men any longer. As for Starless Night it and Mr Hayer are in the movie "The Greatest Show on Earth". You should rent it sometime. Best Regards, Erny Karoly

    Reply: 08 Apr 2009 - Erny, Thank you so much for your response to my question about Captain Hayer and Starless Night! My mother was a costumer for Ringling, and has told me the amazing story of traveling by train from New York to Florida. I will pass along the information you've given, and will definitely look into renting that movie! Thanks again. Kathryn Dennison

    Reply: 29 Jul 2009 - Dear Kathrine, The great Starless Night is also in the move "Sensations of 1945 and appears at the end of the moview in a number with Eleanor Powell the beautiful dancer. Bill Taggart

    Reply: 30 Jul 2009 - Any discussion of Captain Hayer and Starless Night should include a mention of the late CHS member Bob Good, Sr, who told me that he had been the one to suggest to Hayer that he purchase the horse. Whitey

    Reply: 02 Aug 2009 - Yes, my Dad and Hayer's wife, Tamara, spent an afternoon convincing him a mare would be a good buy. Hayer wanted a stallion. The horse was bought from the Frank Person stables in Allentown. I later saw the horse perform at the Allentown Fair. At that time Starless Night was in her twenties. I still remember the cross combing on her rump. I have an autographed picture from Hayer to my Dad. In the inscription he thanks my Dad for his help. I hope that adds some information to the story of this great horse. Bob Good Junior

    Reply: 03 Aug 2009 - One other note on Starless Night. Unless I am mistaken Bill Heyer, not Hayer was the owner of this great horse. I thought perhaps I was mistaken on this, but see the name mentioned on the net. Heyer was also involved with Van Leer's Classical Holland Circus which Rick Pfening did an article about several years back in Bandwagon. My Dad took photos of this show. It was a beautiful one ring show, but just could not make it. Bob Good Jr.

    Reply: 09 Feb 2010 - Hi, I just came across your message on this board, while working on research for a book I'm writing set in Sarasota, with the winter quarters, in the late 50s. I grew up in Sarasota and was fortunate to take riding lessons from Captain Heyer (it is spelled with an "e") beginning in about 1958, I believe (I would have been 8 years old). Starless Night, his incomparable mare, had already died previously - I believe she died in 1957 - so you would not have been able to have ridden her as late as 1959-1961. I remember she was buried in a prominent location on Capt. Heyer's property. Also, I'm pretty sure that Capt. Heyer wouldn't have given beginner lessons on this wonderful and highly-trained horse, but he did give lessons. I remember taking my earliest lessons on an old mare he had - a chestnut named "Temptation," who was very gentle. Those lessons were the highlight of my week back then! I have been a lifelong horse person, and that was the beginning.
        I'm interested in all the responses to this inquiry. Kathryn Dennison, I'd love to hear more about your mother's experiences as a costumer traveling with Ringling, as well as any other memories you might have of Capt. Heyer. I lived in Sarasota from 1953 until I left for college in 1967, but my mother still lives there and I go back often.
        Erny Karoly, if you're still out there, I would absolutely love to hear more of your memories of working at Capt. Heyer's riding school, and about your family's bareback riding act.
        Bob Good Jr., I would love to hear any other memories or info you have regarding Capt. Heyer, his wife Tamara (I remember her) and children, as well as Starless Night. I have a few seconds of video of Capt. Heyer and Starless Night performing at a rodeo in Arcadia! My friend's father took it. I'm wondering if you know the whereabouts of Capt. Heyer's two children and what they are doing? My current horse, as wonderful to me as Starless Night was, also came from the Allentown, PA area, so I feel some kind of weird circle has closed there.
        I am working on a novel, as I said, and any reminiscences of Sarasota's winter quarters during the mid-late 50s would be most appreciated. Thanks very much. Kay Frydenborg

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2867. Costumes, makeup history, 22 Mar 2009 - Hi, I am a youth reporter for Circus4Youth and the article I am currently writing is about circus costumes and makeup. Is there any history of costumes and makeup in circuses? Rachel. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 23 Mar 2009 - "Clowns" by Towsen covers that topic pretty well as far as clowning goes, "The Circus from Rome to Ringling" by Murray should provide more general information. There are so many books on circus history and theatre arts for your research that you might visit your local library for research. Robert Momyer.

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2866. Damoo Dhotre, 21 Mar 2009 - I am writing this email on behalf of my great grandfather, The Great International Circus Artist Damoo Dhotre who worked in Many International Circuses in America and also with American Army. Think of the great Indian circus artists, name comes instantly to mind – Damoo Dhotre the incomparable animal trainer from the world greatest circus Ringling Bros and Barnum & Bailey circus.
    Damoo, as the short name struck to him during his lifetime, was born in a poor family in Pune. Right from childhood, fear was not the word that could be found in the dictionary of this boy, who had not much interest in education, which speaks of his poor educational background.
    Therefore, when his uncle Shelarmama's circus came down to Pune, the young Damoo knew where his destiny lay. Much against the opposition from his mother, he joined his uncle's circus at the age of 11. Initially he had struggle hard and practiced vigorously to gain a niche for himself. Finding the youngsters love for animals, his uncle made him take up to training of animals, under the well established artistes at the circus. At a very young age he was made a 'Ring Master'. He worked for 14 years with the circus and toured Malaysia, Thailand, Burma, Indonesia, Ceylon and China. He earned instant fame in these countries of the fearless 'Wild Animal Trainer', who made such ferocious animals like Lion and Tiger follow his every command. Such was aura enjoyed in those days by Damoo, as some of his early associates recall, that a pin drop inside the big top, the moment Damoo entered the cage.
    His unbound restless energy, spirit of adventure, made him realize that if he was to make a name for himself world over, he would have to migrate abroad. This is what he did. First he worked for three years in a proprietor Isako's Russian circus. In 1939 at the invitation of Batam Mills circus from France he joined them in 1939, The World War II that followed soon, made him sign a contract with the world renowned Ringling Brothers 'Barnum & Bailey' Circus in the USA.
    He worked with what the circus was known as the 'Greatest Show on Earth' for 10 years, earning huge accolades all over Europe and America as that fearless Indian Animal Trainer. Recognition followed him whenever he went. When America joined the allied forces in the fight against Nazi Germany, like all other young men, he was inducted into the army and served American Army between 1943-46. While during his stay in the United States he got his biography 'Wild Animal Man' published and from which one chapter is included by Maharashtra(India) Government Marathi textbook of 9th standard (Earlier in 4th standard Marathi textbook).
    After serving the circus industry for well over 40 years from the age of 11, Damoo Dhotre, finally returned and settled down in 'Sub hash Nagar' in Pune. He got his bungalow built which is appropriately named as 'Circus Villa'. This proud Indian unlike others, who changed their names, always took pride to himself as India's son – Damoo Dhotre.
    So, I want to research on Damoo Dhotre's life and also on Circus Industry. My Dream is to open a Circus Museum in India. Nowadays, as all of us know that situation of Circus Industry in India is very delicate. Still we not got any support from Indian Government, which is very shameless thing. So want do something great for Circus Industry so that Golden Days will be back for Circus Industry. For that I need some support and Guidance from you.
    Sir, I am also sending you some Historical Photographs of Damoo Dhotre, please see it. Also I am in search of American Brothers and Sisters as I sent you photograph of my Great Grandmother Mrs. Bess Damoo Dhotre. If you have some more information or photographs of Damoo Dhotre please share information with me. [Photos not included here, this message board does not display photographs.]
    People may come and people may go, But people like Damoo Dhotre, are born only once in a lifetime. Warm Regards, Anand Dhotre. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2865. White's Traveling Circus, 20 Mar 2009 - Has anyone heard of "White's Traveling Circus", late 1800's or early 1900's, maybe. Thanks for any information anyone might have. John White. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 29 Mar 2009 - "The Directory of American Circuses 1793-2000" includes a W. W. White's Circus, but provides no date or other explanation. He has a similar entry for Kennedy & White's Show and the Hippotheatron or Burlesque Circus, owned by one Charles White in 1875.
        Anthony "Professor Tony" White (1857-1930) operated a twelve wagon overland circus in 1894. There's a paragraph about him in the book "Badger State Showmen," the supporting reference files for which are in the Circus World Museum library. Fred Dahlinger

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2864. Help finding a circus, 18 Mar 2009 - I am a journalist in the Midwest and have a magazine interested in doing a story about a circus. Can anybody recommend any interesting circus in this area? I did a story on clowns some time ago and just fell in love with them. I had always been afraid of clowns but these guys were so good and extremely professional. Ever since then, I've wanted to do a story on a circus. We might also be interested in going to the East Coast or South. Any advice or suggestion would be much appreciated. Sincerely, Diego James Robles. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 19 Mar 2009 - Since the Circus means different things to different people, let me point you in several directions and let you make up your own mind. To many a seasoned historian, a circus means under canvas. Grass on the ground, sawdust, the smell of the tent itself. To this direction there are only about seven circuses still operating under canvas. The Kelly-Miller Circus and Carson and Barnes Circus both call Hugo, OK home. Both have their own websites and the Carson & Barnes Circus provided some of its route there also. As a reporter, I have no doubt you could locate them. The Lewis and Clark Circus opens this week in South Carolina and heads immediately into Georgia. Circus Vargas and Circus Vasquez are both on the West Coast. Walker Bros Circus and the Alain Zerbini show are usually on the East Coast along with the Cole Bros. Circus. I know the Cole Bros. All Star Circus lists some of their route on their website. Universoul Circus and the Big Apple Circus are both on the east Coast and both of them offer part of their route on their websites. Circus Flora calls St. Louis home but does come to Charleston, SC for the Spoleto festival and then goes into New England at one point also.
        There are also the Shrine Circuses which are mostly indoors but there are a few exceptions to being held under canvas. These vary from a building to low to accommodate aerial acts, to too small for three rings to small one ring productions. You will tend to find a flashier wardrobe indoors as the spotlights and darkness work better and it's easier to keep wardrobe clean working indoors.
        The Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus has three separate units on the road with the Blue Unit and the Red Unit both traveling by rail and the Gold Unit playing some of the smaller towns as a one ring show. Both the Red and Blue units have forsaken the three ring format into a huge warehouse look. In your search for true greatness, make your last stop at the Evansville, IN Shrine Circus at Thanksgiving weekend. Here you will find the most incredible indoor show anywhere. Three rings of performing elephants, bears, tigers, dogs, aerial acts all over the place, lighting like some rock concerts and thrills a minute. If you want the best there is to offer, this is the one to see. Please remember that these are my opinions and I hope you are able to make some wise choices of your own. Bob Cline

    Reply: 24 Mar 2009 - Hello: Depending on where you are in the Midwest, I would recommend that you check out the Royal Hanneford Circus, which plays all summer at Adventureland Amusement Park in Altoona, Iowa, right off of Interstate 80 just a few miles east of Des Moines. They run a ½ hour to 40 minute show several times a day under the Big Top from Memorial Day weekend through Labor Day. The staff on the show are some of the friendliest Showfolks that you will ever find and many of them have spent the better part of their lifetimes travelling with the circus. The Ringmaster and General Manager of the show is one Mr. Billy Martin, who also owns the Cole All-Star Circus that Mr. Cline mentions above. Mr. Martin’s wife Angela is a solo trapeze artist that literally was born into show business on the Carson & Barnes Circus. If you’re lucky, you may catch Angela’s sister Roxie visiting the show, since she is a teacher in Iowa/Nebraska now, but at one time was Kirby “Sky King” Grant’s assistant when he appeared with Carson & Barnes Circus back in the late 1950’s/1960’s. Other people on the show include Bennito Aguilar, who is a tremendous juggler, and comes from several generations of wild animal trainers in South America and his charming wife Dulce Vital, who presents a stunning aerial act hanging by her hair alone! They usually will have a couple of more acts, including at least one animal act, usually dogs or horses. I suggest this show as they are in one spot all summer long and you’ll not have to worry about interrupting them during set-up and tear-down, as they don’t have to move. Most other shows are moving every day, so finding people with time to talk can be very difficult. At the Hanneford Show, you’ll have plenty of time for leisurely interviews! Neil C. Cockerline

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2863. Alvin Engeln, clown, 17 Mar 2009 - My uncle worked for the Barnum Circus in the 1950s and 1960s. His real name was Alvin Leon Engeln II. I haven't seen him in years and years. I have looked everywhere but always dead ends come up. I have lots of pictures of him and my aunt on the circus grounds. I have as essay he wrote about Happy The Clown. I believe he went by "Al Angel" the clown. He may very well have passed on by now. His son, my cousin, disappeared with him and my aunt died not knowing where her son, Alvin Leon Carroll Engeln III was. I have tried so hard to find him. Can anyone help? Sincerely, Donna Clark. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2862. Joe Seitz, 16 Mar 2009 - I am looking for information on Joe Seitz who was with the Circus for many, many years and also performed with the Wallendas, in a high wire act. If there is any information anyone can share with me I would very much appreciate it. Joe is from my home town in Wisconsin. You can email me at Kathy@downacountryroad.com or downacountryroad@yahoo.com. Thanks, Kathy. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 21 Mar 2009 - Look one foto Mendez and Seitz circus Krone 1963 Germany www.circusmuseum.nl/eng. H.Best-Otte

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2860. Slack rope walker, 15 Mar 2009 - I am looking for information on famous slack rope walkers in the 1940's and 1950's, give or take, who worked in circuses at that time. This one slack rope walker was married and had a son, who is now in his mid to late 60's or early 70's. The son works with the Abou Ben Adhem Shrine circus, as an usher, and is a research chemist. A friend of mine talked with the son last night while she was attending the circus here in Springfield, MO, and he told her that his father was a famous slack rope walker in the 40's and 50's. She was unable to get his name. I would so much appreciate any information you can send my way. Sincerely, Nara Campbell. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2859. Manley Harris, 15 Mar 2009 - Does anyone know anything about Manley Harris (called Sonny)? He worked with Barnum and Bailey Circus years ago and I think cared for elephants. He would be close to ninety years old by now and I hear he has some interesting stories to tell. I would like to meet him if he is in the south. Donna. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 17 Apr 2009 - I know where Sonny is, however, if you would give me your information, I will pass it on to him and he can get in touch with you. Hope that's OK. Marion.

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2858. Photos, Shrine circus 1920s-40s, 15 Mar 2009 - Photographs of the Shrine circus bands that played in St. Louis, MO during the 20's-40's. Do they exist? I'm hoping to find just one that includes an old family friend who played in St. Louis circus bands, although he lived in southern Illinois - Harry "Bunny" White. The locals say he played in Sousa's band, but he was an excellent piccolo player in any case. One of my problems is that none of his descendents can tell me what years he played in the circus band. Then too, I'm assuming it was the RBBB circus, but maybe I'm wrong about that. Hoping very much for leads. Dick Bayley. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2857. Baby elephant, 14 Mar 2009 - I am searching for information about the first baby elephant to be born by "Baby Bell, mother Tunglaw, owner was Mr. Berry lived in Vancouver Washington around the 1950's. Pam Cook, rwmac@shaw.ca. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 17 Mar 2009 - Morgan Berry had many elephants during his career. Thonglaw was a male Asian elephant that bred to Belle, an Asian Female elephant. This union produced a Male named Packy that was born on April 14, 1962. They were bred while under the care of Morgan Berry but had transferred to the Portland Zoo a year later. Packy was born at the Portland Zoo which is now the Oregon Zoo. Thonglaw sired 15 elephant calves during his lifetime. Packy became a successful breeder himself producing 7 calves over the years. Packy still resides at the Oregon Zoo. Bob Cline

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2856. RBBB 1954 sideshow setup, 14 Mar 2009 - Recently I acquired a photo taken inside the Ringling sideshow top in 1954. It appears there was a curtain inside toward one end. Can anyone recall the interior layout of the kid show that year? How were the stages arranged? Was there a marquee to the top? Any help is always appreciated. Rick Faber, rfaber@schlitterbahn.com. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2855. Cardiff Giant, 14 Mar 2009 - I am interested in finding out about the Cardiff Giant replica. Do you still have it, how tall, what’s it made of, etc. All information would be helpful. Thank you for your help in this matter, Lisa A. Nolan, lnolan@centerforinquiry.net. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

    Reply: 16 Mar 2009 - I have seen the Cardiff Giant on display at a museum in Cooperstown NY. Carol

    Reply: 17 Mar 2009 - Ward Hall exhibited a replica of the Cardiff Giant at the Smithsonian Institution's Circus Festival in 1982. Robert Momyer

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2854. Hadji Lessik, 14 Mar 2009 - Does anyone have any information/photos regarding Hadji Lessik the triple gun twirling performer? Any information would be appreciated. Thank you. Jeff Kissell, jkissellus@yahoo.com. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2853. Al Thomas collection, 14 Mar 2009 - I would like to post a query again about the Al Thomas Circus Photography Collection. Who has Mr Thomas' collection. Al Thomas was from Keyser, Mineral County, WV so I searched WV university archival collection but did not find the Al Thomas collection. Is there someone who knows what depository houses the Al Thomas Circus Photography Collection? Nancy. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2852. Bianca Levermore, 14 Mar 2009 - I am looking for information about Bianca Levermore (real name Branca Acathar). Any information about this circus worker is welcome. Erik Schaap, e.schaap@zaanstad.nl. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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2851. Mactar Lahader, 14 Mar 2009 - My grand father was a tumbler. He held up a large number of his kin. The human pyrimid I think it was called. Since my father died, and I am the last. I was just looking to see if in fact I am the last. Sure is lonely out here. Granddad: Mactar Lahader or Muctar married to Hellen Spencer who was a prima ballerina for the metropolitan opera, worked for Masey's. Son Joe, my dad, lived in New York-Mass. area. David. Reply to this message, replies go to this board, not to the message sender.

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